Thirteen Ways to Kill Lulabelle Rock by Maud Woolf

Episode 123

Release Date: January 17, 2024

Your hosts discuss Thirteen Ways to Kill Lulabelle Rock by Maude Woolf. They talk about tragedy, self sabotage, and the worth of a person's life. The book doesn't actually feel that sad though, they swear. Lilly also has beef with the word quash in a mini Words are Weird segment.

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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris” - Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

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Episode Transcript*

*this transcript is AI generated, please excuse the mess.

Lilly: 0:03

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words, too. I'm Lily,

Sara: 0:10

And I'm Sarah.

Lilly: 0:11

and this week we'll be discussing 13 Ways to Kill Lulabel Rock by Maude Wolfe. But first, Sarah, what's something great that happened recently?

Sara: 0:20

Something great that happened recently is I have learned how to read a knitting pattern. This is a skill that I have lacked for many years, probably just because I didn't actually bother to learn it. I mean, it's not like it's that hard. But I think I finally got a handle on reading knitting patterns and I'm actually very pleased about that.

Lilly: 0:42

Oh, good! There was a dramatic pause when you said, I have finally learned to read. And I was like, is this gonna be the great reveal? Yes, this has been a sham podcast all along.

Sara: 0:55

It's true, I've hired someone else to do the reading and tell me what to say up until now.

Lilly: 1:01

Twist.

Sara: 1:04

Surprise!

Lilly: 1:06

My good thing I have to say, sometimes this question feels very silly, and then sometimes I have a week like this week where I'm like, Oh shit, what is something good that happened? Do good things happen? But yes, good things do happen. We painted our bathroom this weekend.

Sara: 1:22

What color did you paint your bathroom?

Lilly: 1:24

Well, I call it grey, but Daniel calls it blue, so I don't know.

Sara: 1:30

Somewhere in that gray blue spectrum, okay.

Lilly: 1:33

Yeah, it's very nice. It was just drywall for a while, so it actually feels like a bathroom now. Like a finished room.

Sara: 1:41

is not the original bathroom, this is the new bathroom.

Lilly: 1:46

Yes, this is the new bathroom. The new bathroom that is now painted.

Sara: 1:50

That's very exciting. I look forward to seeing it next time I visit you.

Lilly: 1:54

Yeah, hopefully that's soon. What are you drinking tonight?

Sara: 2:02

13 Ways to Kill Lulabelle Rock strikes me as a beer book for some reason. I'm not entirely sure why. I don't like beer, so I'm not drinking beer. But I am drinking cider, which is kind of like beer in the sense that they're both kind of fizzy and Alcoholic.

Lilly: 2:20

That is true of many things, yes. I think at one point Lulabelle says, What if we just stopped doing this and I'll go have a beer? And no one takes her up on that, but she was very much hoping that they would.

Sara: 2:33

Yes, I think you are correct. That, that could have something to do with my thoughts about it being a beer book.

Lilly: 2:39

Because there are a couple other cocktails and things in the book.

Sara: 2:43

drink champagne at one point, and

Lilly: 2:45

Yeah, but they're not, like, enjoyed. The person drinking them, it's more like a duty and not someone who's like, I could really go for a beer right now. Very different energy.

Sara: 2:55

What are you drinking tonight?

Lilly: 2:56

I am drinking red wine from the finest cardboard vintage.

Sara: 3:02

Very nice.

Lilly: 3:03

Yes. Other than our topic at hand, have you read anything good lately?

Sara: 3:09

I've read a lot of knitting patterns, does that count?

Lilly: 3:12

Kind of. Are there any plot twists?

Sara: 3:14

There's yarn twists.

Lilly: 3:16

There you go.

Sara: 3:17

I've not actually been doing a lot of reading because I've been doing a lot of knitting instead. And there's only so much time in the day, so it's generally either knit or read. I guess I could knit and listen to audiobooks. Haven't done that. I've been knitting and watching Gardener's World.

Lilly: 3:34

I was gonna say, I really like crocheting while something's on TV, but I can't just crochet.

Sara: 3:39

Yeah, I mean, that's the same for me with knitting. Which is why I might actually try audiobooks.

Lilly: 3:45

Gasp. Shock. Do you know how to read? Wait.

Sara: 3:51

We already, we already agreed that I don't, well, I just learned. But yeah, so I haven't actually been doing a lot of proper reading.

Lilly: 3:58

I, uh, started Ophelia in the Underworld by Stephen Howard. It's a collection of short stories. The first one's definitely horror. Is the collection itself considered horror? I don't remember.

Sara: 4:12

I think that he said that it is a horror collection that has some subgenres in it. Maybe some of those subgenres are less horror than others.

Lilly: 4:24

Okay. I was pretty sure I had seen the word horror thrown around. And the first one is like a full on zombie short story. So I was like, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. But

Sara: 4:34

Yes.

Lilly: 4:36

I've only just started it, but I'm excited to read some more.

Sara: 4:39

Yeah, it, it sounds great. And he will be doing an interview on our blog. So keep an eye on our blog for that.

Lilly: 4:47

Yeah.

Sara: 4:48

Shameless, shameless plug.

Lilly: 4:51

So, there's no segue, we're just gonna have to go straight into this.

Sara: 4:55

You know, that's kind of like our Lulabelle, the Lulabelle that we follow, who is abruptly woken up and told that she has to kill the other Lulabelles in existence. So I think it fits.

Lilly: 5:08

Sure.

Sara: 5:11

It's a little bit of a reach, but I think it fits.

Lilly: 5:13

I really loved this book. It's very sad. But like, the book itself isn't sad, but you're definitely like, emotional while you read it.

Sara: 5:23

The situations are sad, but the book itself is not sad, yeah. This is not the first time that either of us has read it. We did read it earlier, not for podcast discussion, but to blurb it. So this was a reread, but it remained, it remained fun. I mean, it was, it's, I think it's actually even better on reread than it is the first time around for me.

Lilly: 5:47

Yeah, you can really like, we won't talk about the foreshadowing yet, but there is some.

Sara: 5:52

Very, yes.

Lilly: 5:54

It jumps off the page more once you know where the book is

Sara: 5:57

Yeah, it's, it's something that is fun to notice when you know what it's telling you.

Lilly: 6:03

Yeah. I really loved. So, Lulabelle, our main character, is the thirteenth portrait, or clone, of Lulabelle Rock, who is a movie star. And reading her experience, the thirteenth Lulabelle's experience, of both having memories, but also encountering things for the very first time, was such an interesting, like, push and pull in this narrative.

Sara: 6:32

Yeah, I think Maude Wolfe, the author, does a really good job at making familiar things just that little bit unfamiliar. Not in, like, a spooky way, because this isn't a spooky book. But, like, in the sense that you know that you've done something or, like, met someone before. Like, you kind of have those memories, but you don't really remember that experience very well, so you're kind of doing it for the first time at the same time. Which I think is a hard balance to strike, actually.

Lilly: 7:04

Unsettling, I would

Sara: 7:06

Yes.

Lilly: 7:07

It's a very unsettling book.

Sara: 7:09

Before we get too deep into it, the premise of the book is that, like you said, Lulabelle, the Lulabelle that we follow is the 13th portrait of a B list actress, and our Lulabelle is told that she has to go kill all of the other Lulabelle portraits or clones, and so this book is her doing that, or attempting to do that.

Lilly: 7:33

Yeah. And it's not murder, because they're not people. This book is harsh.

Sara: 7:40

Yes.

Lilly: 7:41

And I mean, of course they are people. And so that, like, is part of what makes it so sad. You have these, like, thirteen women who are being told that they are disposable and no longer serve a purpose, and so it's time to dispose of them, and their different reactions to that is just heartbreaking at times.

Sara: 7:59

Yeah. And then the, the situations in which all of the portraits find themselves is also very, very heartbreaking, but something that wasn't heartbreaking, a brief moment of not hilarity.

Lilly: 8:11

This was definitely, like, a shoot air through your nose kind of book. Not a laugh out loud book, but there were a lot of, like, witty moments, I would say, rather than hilarious.

Sara: 8:23

Yeah, a brief moment of lightheartedness or levity was when the science behind how all of the cloning works just kind of gets hand waved away by Lulabelle because she just doesn't care how it works. So I really enjoyed that. Like, yeah, acknowledge that you're not going to try to make something that sounds realistic or sounds scientific, but it doesn't matter because the characters don't care.

Lilly: 8:48

Mhm. The way that the book starts with the 13th Lulabelle sort of waking up and being thrust into this situation, the whole book is only like three days long, right? So much happens in those three days. That was kind of crazy to me.

Sara: 9:04

Yeah, it's a very condensed time span. And part of that is because our Lulabelle, the assassin, is kind of told when she is first woken up that like she doesn't need sleep, she doesn't need food. Like, she's a, you know, a clone. She's not a person. And she believes that because why wouldn't she? And so, she does go through these long periods of doing stuff, probably past the point where she should, because she thinks that's what, you know, what she's made to do.

Lilly: 9:36

One small piece of science, not even really science, but explanation. We find out pretty early on that the portraits aren't flesh and blood, right? They're kind of like huge dolls that get the identity imprinted on them. And when they die, they sort of start Recessing,

Sara: 9:56

Mm

Lilly: 9:56

receding back into the doll form, like, after they've been dead for a while, their hair starts to lose color, and their eyes start to lose color, and they start to stiffen into plastic. So, there is a line drawn, like, it's not completely philosophical saying that they're not human. To some extent, they are a different being than a human being. That's not to say that they aren't people. In my opinion. But, you know what I mean? Like, it's, I do think it's interesting to have that differentiation. And, uh, oh, the portraits don't have fingerprints. I thought that was very interesting.

Sara: 10:30

Mm hmm. Although, you know, of course, you can get surgery, illegal surgery. to To add some fingerprints, but yeah, I think this whole book really plays with the concept or themes of identity and Individuality and what it means to be a person even if you're not, you know a human being

Lilly: 10:53

Yeah, I, I like using that verbiage. They're people, even if they're not necessarily human, right? I think that works. Ah,

Sara: 11:02

their personhood is denied by the society around them. They're, you know, treated as kind of disposable, even though it's expensive to make one and, you know, not something that everyday people can do.

Lilly: 11:18

but as soon as you put a price tag on something, that's what makes it disposable. Right? Like, that means that there's a dollar amount that you can use to replace them. This book, despite being, like, action hijinks on the surface level, delves pretty deep into some of these ideas. It was, like I said, very sad, in a fun way.

Sara: 11:37

Yeah, it's, I would call it an action adventure plot, but. very philosophical underpinning.

Lilly: 11:44

Absolutely. I don't think I ever cried so hard at the concept of polka dots. Because that was one of the portraits! She was the fashionista. She was supposed to just walk around in the fashion district being hot. That was like her whole job. And the original Lulabelle was so annoyed because the fashionista Lulabelle loved polka dots and would like alter the outfits she was supposed to be wearing by adding like a polka dotted scarf or something. And that's just so, that's so sad! That was her one thing!

Sara: 12:18

It is really sad. All of the lullabells are so sad.

Lilly: 12:23

All of the lulabells are so sad. That is a spoiler conversation.

Sara: 12:27

We're not gonna talk about that yet, but it's true.

Lilly: 12:31

So beyond identity and individuality, this book also has a lot of conversation around the idea of purpose, because each of the portraits is made for something, but they are either comforted by that or tortured by it, depending on each individual portrait, because of course they're all different people. One of them was created for the purposes of tax evasion, and she hates that. She doesn't have anything she's supposed to do. All she's supposed to do is exist, and that torments her. Whereas the party girl portrait wants to do literally anything but party. But she can't, because her purpose is a prison for her. And so maybe existence is just pain. I don't know.

Sara: 13:17

I'm pretty sure that the party girl says something to that effect. Let me see if I can find it. She talks about her, uh, view on life, and it's so depressing.

Lilly: 13:28

This is the saddest non tragedy I've ever read.

Sara: 13:33

So, she's talking about, you know, stopping, having a break, and she says, I've tried rest, she says. It's just one long nap in a hotel room. After a while, you get bored of the room service and daytime TV, and you start to miss the party, even if your feet hurt. Waking up and falling asleep over and over again, it's exhausting. Just once, I'd like to close my eyes and not worry about when I'm going to have to open them.

Lilly: 13:57

Oh, that girl just has depression.

Sara: 13:59

She, she really does. I mean, it's just, it's, we've used the word heartbreaking a lot, but I think it's heartbreaking.

Lilly: 14:08

It's really interesting how this book has such sad situations, and yet I still wouldn't call this a sad book. I don't, like, I'm not distinguishing between those two things well.

Sara: 14:22

No, but, but I do know what you mean. Like, it's not, it's not a sad book. The sadness isn't the point, if that makes sense.

Lilly: 14:29

almost makes it worse. It's incidental heartbreak. So all of these portraits have a purpose that's, like, ingrained into them. But through that, the book is able to explore some society, I'll say society, capital S, society things.

Sara: 14:47

Yeah, I mean, there's, there's definitely a lot of stuff about the, like, expectations of access to celebrity. I mean, Bubble City, the city in which this takes place, is very thinly veiled Hollywood. I don't know if it's thinly veiled at all or veiled at all. It's, it's science fiction Hollywood, near future Hollywood. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of discussion about what a celebrity kind of quote unquote owes the audience or owes people and like how much access of themselves they give to the general population with partying and paparazzi and all of that.

Lilly: 15:28

And then also how, I mean, one person can't do all those things. Obviously this is taken to the, uh,

Sara: 15:34

Extreme.

Lilly: 15:34

nth degree, yeah. But the idea, like, if you have to be seen all the time, but also still doing your job, like, that's not just one person amount of hours.

Sara: 15:45

Mhm. Yeah, you do need a portrait in order to get all of that done.

Lilly: 15:50

I mean, that, that is something, right? Like, a lot of personalities do hire people to Be them on social media, which is, there's a social media portrait. And that is, I think, probably the most close to current reality

Sara: 16:03

Yeah.

Lilly: 16:04

out of all the different portraits, because that's just something that happens.

Sara: 16:06

Yeah, I mean that's, she's basically just the social media manager for Lulabelle.

Lilly: 16:10

Yeah. The portraits are also used in a very interesting way as, like, not wish fulfillment. But they're away for Lulabelle to get a taste of the road not taken, if you will. One of them is married to her childhood sweetheart, and they're just living their life in the suburbs. They have a couple of adopted kids, and there's something In that, because, Lulabelle didn't want that life, she didn't choose that life, but she didn't want to have not chosen that life, but then she's still mad that there's a version of her out there who does have that life, even though she doesn't want it. I Y People are complex creatures, I guess, is the answer.

Sara: 16:55

Yeah, people, people are complicated. But it is an interesting look at how sometimes knowing what you would have had if you had chosen a particular path doesn't make you any happier. I mean, because Lulabelle isn't actually any happier knowing that there's a Lulabelle out there who did marry her childhood sweetheart.

Lilly: 17:18

We find out Tell me if this is a spoiler, I don't think it is. We find out That the Lulabelle living up in the hills has a telescope watching the suburb Lulabelle who had a telescope watching the Lulabelle up in the hills. So like, despite their completely different, separated lives, they're still obsessed with what the other one has.

Sara: 17:39

Yeah. Which, again, is very sad.

Lilly: 17:42

It's so sad! The narrative voice of this book is so important because I think that goes really far to hitting this balance that we are not doing well in our description right now. Wolf does such an incredible job of slow dripping this heartbreak, page after page, person after person, without making the reader go into a tailspin.

Sara: 18:10

Yeah, I think, I think the pacing of this book is really good. And even though in a way it's very episodic, right? Because our Lulabelle is going around killing the other Lulabelles, it also doesn't feel repetitive in a, when it very easily could have.

Lilly: 18:29

Well, there are 13 different ways to kill Lulabelle Rock. It's right there in the title.

Sara: 18:35

It's true.

Lilly: 18:36

We also have a couple of fun side characters who we meet, besides just the Lulabelles. Of course, this world isn't entirely made up of Lulabelle, although that would be also an interesting story.

Sara: 18:48

There's an awful lot of portraits, though. I mean

Lilly: 18:50

They're most of the characters.

Sara: 18:52

of clones.

Lilly: 18:53

Yeah. But there's also the paparazzi, Velasquez.

Sara: 18:56

He was cool.

Lilly: 18:58

Yeah, he helps her out, gives her a ride, and is just like, There's a couple of people she meets who are kind to her for no reason. And that's nice.

Sara: 19:07

It is, it is nice, yeah. A lot of the incidental characters actually are really low key in a way that I appreciated, because I think a setting like this could easily have had all of the side characters be kind of miserably mean, but none of them are. And I think that helps offset some of the tragedy of the lullabells, like, as you're reading it.

Lilly: 19:33

ooh, Sarah, what have you just discovered? All of the misery in Lulabelle's life is inflicted by herself. The Lulabelle who creates the other Lulabelles, and then the Lulabelle who is killing the other Lulabelles. Like, it is Lulabelle who is doing this to herself. Every other person she meets is genuinely pretty nice to her.

Sara: 19:54

would say maybe with the exception of her agent, who's a little bit skeevy.

Lilly: 19:58

Okay, you're right. Not everyone is nice to her, but humanity is generally pretty good in this book.

Sara: 20:07

I think you're right that so much of the conflict is self driven, you know, literally.

Lilly: 20:13

And then, we're being a little, because the point of this book is that they're not all the same person, but the, the metaphor of this book is that it is 13 versions of one person, or 14 versions of one person, right? So it, you get that, sort of, two different metaphors at the same time, or two different, uh, themes at the same time. It's a good book. It does all of that in less than 300 pages.

Sara: 20:36

yeah, it's, for something that says so much, it's surprisingly short.

Lilly: 20:41

And so fast. It does not sit there philosophizing for pages on end. Like, you gotta get to the next victim.

Sara: 20:50

Yeah. I think this time when I read it, I read it in an evening. So, very fast paced.

Lilly: 20:57

Yeah. It took me a couple hours, but, split over two days, but that was just a scheduling thing. I could have sat down and read it all at once. And that's another thing, despite all of the heartbreak in this book, it doesn't feel overwhelming. Or at least it didn't for me, at the time.

Sara: 21:12

Well, and I think that's part of why, even though there's a lot of sad aspects to the book, I wouldn't call it a sad book. Right? Like, it's not overwhelming. You're not miserable reading it.

Lilly: 21:24

It's just sad.

Sara: 21:25

Mm

Lilly: 21:26

It's kind of like poking a bruise. It's sad in a way that I feel like a lot of people have experienced to some extent, the what ifs of life, right?

Sara: 21:35

Mm hmm. Almost cathartic sad.

Lilly: 21:38

Yeah, that's the fancier way of saying poking a bruise.

Sara: 21:43

Well that's, that's why I thought of the word cathartic, yes.

Lilly: 21:47

Alright, so we've talked a hell of a lot about the first maybe 20 percent of this novel, but we gotta get to the rest of it.

Sara: 21:55

We, we do, but before, before we do, we haven't actually finished our conversation about great side characters because we haven't mentioned Simon.

Lilly: 22:04

We don't even find out his name until the end. Is that a spoiler? His name is Simon, everyone. Now you know.

Sara: 22:10

Oops, should have been behind that spoiler tag.

Lilly: 22:13

I don't actually think that's a spoiler. He's the goth kid that Lulabelle, he's, he's hitchhiking to Bubble City and Lulabelle gives him a ride at the very, very beginning of the book and he shows up a couple of times and he's going to Bubble City to learn magic.

Sara: 22:31

He's just really sweet. I liked him a lot.

Lilly: 22:34

Yeah, very earnest

Sara: 22:36

Yes, he is very earnest. I think that's a good way of describing him.

Lilly: 22:41

and genuine, and he's a, it's a really nice foil, especially for early Assassin Lulabelle, because she is, at this point, entirely consumed by her mission, has no concept of her own personhood, and there's this kid who's like, yeah, I'm gonna go learn magic in the big city. They deeply affect each other without really interacting that much. In a way that, you know, there are people that you meet that, like, stick with you. And it was, mm, good book.

Sara: 23:12

It is a good book.

Lilly: 23:13

haven't talked about the tarot cards at all. I don't really know that much about tarot cards. There's sort of that, like, overarching motif.

Sara: 23:20

One of the things that Assassin Lulabelle receives from Simon is a pack of tarot cards. She asks for His deck when she gives him a ride, or while, while they're driving to Bubble City. And for the assassin, the tarot cards help explain who she is in relation to the other Lulabelles.

Lilly: 23:42

She assigns each lullabell an identity of tarot.

Sara: 23:47

Yeah, and at the beginning of each chapter you get a little description of a tarot card. But I don't actually know much about tarot either, so I can't really, can't really talk about it.

Lilly: 23:58

It was there. It was nice. It was a good framing device. I'd be very interested to hear from someone who knows more about the implications of the major arcana. Because I have a very thin understanding.

Sara: 24:11

Mm hmm.

Lilly: 24:12

uh,

Sara: 24:13

Yeah.

Lilly: 24:14

but it didn't affect my reading of the book. I would say that. Like, I was still able to fully enjoy it. I know what tarot cards are.

Sara: 24:21

I think everything that you need to know about tarot cards for this book is explained in the text.

Lilly: 24:27

Okay, Sarah, we need to get to the spoiler section. But before we do, who should read this book?

Sara: 24:33

You should read this book if you are looking for a near future sci fi that discusses the themes of celebrity and identity and personhood.

Lilly: 24:44

To avoid spoilers, skip to 45. 25. Alright, now we can finally talk about Spencer and what a skeezball he is.

Sara: 24:58

Now we can talk about Spencer and what a skeezball he is. He is really a skeezball. Although, I like that he gives us, I think, our first bit of foreshadowing for the big reveal.

Lilly: 25:10

Oh, he's a really good character. I just wanted to punch him in the face.

Sara: 25:15

Mm hmm. I mean, that's valid. I think Lulabelle did too.

Lilly: 25:19

Yeah. But, my statement stands, he's nice to Lulabelle, he just has ulterior motives.

Sara: 25:27

It's true. I mean, he's, he's not mean or anything.

Lilly: 25:31

He's not kind, but he is nice.

Sara: 25:33

Yes, I would agree with that. Although I'm not even sure that Well, I think he's nice to our Lulabelle, the assassin, but I wouldn't say that he's nice to Lulabelle, the secretary.

Lilly: 25:48

Okay, you're right. When I made that statement, I was definitely talking about the main character. I agree. He's, ugh, ugh, so skeezy. I loved the assassin Lulabelle's internal thought, like, Oh, I hope they're not sleeping together. Me too, Lulabelle. Me too.

Sara: 26:09

Lulabelle wanted to.

Lilly: 26:12

No! And even if they're not sleeping together, you know he's still creepy and gross to her.

Sara: 26:18

Yeah, and so dismissive.

Lilly: 26:21

manager has one of the portraits as his secretary. Like, the power! Ugh!

Sara: 26:28

Yeah, the, the power dynamics there are de skeevy.

Lilly: 26:34

How Lula Bell Rock ever take him seriously, knowing he has basically constructed a sex doll of her and employed her? Like, gross.

Sara: 26:44

Yeah, I mean, I kind of got the feeling that he was the architect of her career in a sense. Not that she couldn't have gotten there on her own, because I do think that Lulabelle was talented. I mean, not that we ever see her, but like, I think she genuinely had talent. But so often, I think that celebrities rise because a manager scouts them when they're young. And that's kind of the vibe that I got here.

Lilly: 27:12

Well, Spencer certainly thinks so.

Sara: 27:15

Spencer certainly thinks so. But it kind of felt like, if Lulabelle exerted herself, she could have done better. But she's still in that mindset where she thinks that she does kind of need him to manage her career.

Lilly: 27:28

I can see that. Well, and at this point he has orchestrated this whole portrait scheme because we're in the spoiler section now and we can talk about it. Except, I feel like it needs more gravitas than just using it to bitch about Spencer. But the really big twist. The really, really big twist.

Sara: 27:48

yes, that the original Lulabelle is not actually the original Lulabelle. She is, in fact, the first portrait.

Lilly: 27:56

And I think that's really why she's still stuck with Spencer.

Sara: 27:59

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely that too. But she has the surgery for the fingerprints. Like, I think she seems, from this reading, to be convincing enough that she could've gotten another manager if she wanted.

Lilly: 28:15

So there's something going on with Mitosis, who is the company that is creating the portraits. They have trackers in all the portraits. They definitely feel like a sort of, um, secret organization.

Sara: 28:27

Shady Overlord?

Lilly: 28:29

Yeah. I was gonna say Blue Sun from Firefly, but that was a weird reference that's not helpful to most people. And I'm sure there's some weird deal, and Spencer being involved is probably like a clincher.

Sara: 28:44

would believe that.

Lilly: 28:45

But we're making guesses, none of this is on the page.

Sara: 28:47

Yeah, we don't actually get that much about mitosis. Or even Spencer, to be perfectly honest.

Lilly: 28:53

We know that he forces his Lulabelle portrait to dye her hair red to be his secretary, which is, there's something so gross about that. It's so controlling, right? Like, you are just here for me to look at. But that's flipped because then the secretary Lulabelle has the most agency of all of the portraits. Ignoring the portrait who is now the original Lulabelle. She has her hands in everything.

Sara: 29:20

The secretary knows the most. And I don't necessarily think that she has the most a Well

Lilly: 29:31

she's the one who sends the email out to warn everyone that the assassin Lulabelle is coming. Like, that's a fucking power move.

Sara: 29:39

She makes the assassin Lulabelle wait while she sends that email.

Lilly: 29:43

Oh, so good. That was something that was so incredible on a reread. Like, knowing. Because in the moment, you're just like, Oh, the secretary is like, Oh, I'll be with you in just a moment. I have to finish sending this email. And you think she has no idea. But she knew exactly.

Sara: 30:00

Yeah, she's just, you know, the first time you read it, you're like, she's just being diligent. She wants to finish her work because she doesn't want to leave things in the lurch. Like many women, she is conditioned to be over helpful, right? But no.

Lilly: 30:14

She knew she was about to be murdered, so she sends this email to all of the other because of course she's keeping tabs on all of them, she's Ugh. Spencer thinks he's the mastermind, but clearly the Secretary Lulabelle had a lot going on. Maybe not with movie star Lulabelle's career, but with the actual machinations, right?

Sara: 30:36

I think she had the most information.

Lilly: 30:39

Yes. And she deployed it to great effect. And then before she, like, sends this email, and is like, Okay, you can kill me now. And what was her last request? Don't leave me here. Oh, don't leave my body with him. Which is also, like, really dark.

Sara: 30:55

Yes. Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

Lilly: 30:59

Oh, she asks to be brought somewhere nice. Which is like, oh my god. So, it's so sad.

Sara: 31:06

Yeah. Yeah, it's really sad. I mean, so much of this book deals with characters who are in very sad positions, as we've talked about at length.

Lilly: 31:19

Yeah. I mean, on some level, this book is about Young women making the most of their shit deal. Just, you know, in a sci fi way.

Sara: 31:30

Another little small bit of foreshadowing that hints at the big reveal that I really enjoyed on a reread is the assassin is talking with the original Lulabelle. The first Lulabelle that we meet that we think, at this point, we think is the original.

Lilly: 31:45

The movie star.

Sara: 31:47

The movie star, yeah. And they've been drink or, the movie star has been drinking, or had a couple of drinks. And they get real close, and Lulabelle, the assassin, comments, It's strange because even this close I can't smell the alcohol on her breath. Because, you know, the portraits metabolize things differently. It doesn't affect them the same way that it affects human beings.

Lilly: 32:10

And they don't have to breathe.

Sara: 32:12

they don't have to breathe, yeah. And I definitely didn't pick up on that the first time.

Lilly: 32:16

I didn't even pick up that in your note here.

Sara: 32:19

The significance, yeah.

Lilly: 32:21

Oh man, Sarah, I thought your note was about the artist mixing a cocktail for the assassin.

Sara: 32:29

Oh.

Lilly: 32:31

And the artist drugs her and knocks her out, and we find out later, like, I was gonna kill you, but they end up falling in love. It's great. We haven't even talked about the love story in this book. But I was like, oh, not smelling alcohol. Yeah, cause it was actually, like, to knock her out, it was actually poisoned. No. I was way off.

Sara: 32:52

Yeah, something, something else entirely.

Lilly: 32:55

Damn.

Sara: 32:56

So there, there are all of these little hints that, you know, maybe you could pick up on the first time, I certainly didn't, but that you definitely pick up on the second time when you know what's coming, that make me appreciate this book even more as a reread.

Lilly: 33:09

And then, of course, there's the obvious, I mean, I was gonna say from page one, but you have it right here, it's page seven. We have the ice cream question.

Sara: 33:19

Yeah, I, that's, again, that's, has a payoff that I really appreciate. Because the Viking, the bodyguard that the movie star sends with the assassin, or hands off the assassin to at the very beginning, tells her to, on her way to Bubble City, to stop. At this diner and taste the ice cream flavors that are there and, and tell him what her favorite was. And it turns out that he is trying to make her aware of her individuality and, and her personhood. And so there's a really lovely payoff there that lasts throughout the book, I think.

Lilly: 33:58

comes up a couple of times, too, right? It's like it's planted, and you're like, hey, that's suspicious. And then, through quite a bit of the book, we see mitosis using Pick a color to determine if portraits have developed personhood and now have a favorite color as a trick question. So if they think about it too hard, they know that this portrait needs to be, like, decommissioned. So then you're like, oh no, the Viking is a bad guy, like, he's also trying to trick her. And then you find out, no, he was trying to nudge her towards individuality.

Sara: 34:34

Yeah, it's, he's one of those characters where originally you're kind of like, Oh, I think you're going to turn out to be a bad dude. And then no, he's actually a really nice guy because so many of the problems in this book are, as we talked about, Lulabelle caused.

Lilly: 34:52

Yeah. He is following his orders. I mean His literal job. He's doing his job, as decreed by the movie star, and then at a very critical moment of the book, is just like, Hey, my shift's over,

Sara: 35:11

And I love that kind of, you know, weaponized competence, right? You're great until you're off the clock, and then it doesn't matter.

Lilly: 35:21

and now I'm a problem.

Sara: 35:23

Yeah. And more people should have that division between work and free time.

Lilly: 35:28

He even says, this is me practicing work life balance or something to that effect. So good. Okay, there was something about this world that we have not talked about because it doesn't have anything to do with portraits. But this crazy sci fi version of Los Angeles has an entire origin mythology that we get little glimpses of, and I am fascinated.

Sara: 35:53

Yeah, there's, we just get little hints of it. And I want to know so much more. Like, you get the sense that there's a lot to the city that we're not being told.

Lilly: 36:04

there's a literal founding myth about a woman who leads travelers to this place to start a city because she told them there would be water there. They get there, there's no water, so they murder her and her blood causes a spring to spring forth.

Sara: 36:20

Yes.

Lilly: 36:21

Then they, like, something about, they cut her into pieces, and uh, it's, she's the saint of travelers and fools, and the city isn't actually called Bubble City. There's a different name on the maps that we never find out.

Sara: 36:34

Yeah, it's, it definitely leaves you wondering in a good way.

Lilly: 36:39

Mostly because we fucking NEET her. I mean, like, that's a cool story and all. But then you find out that Marie, the tailor who works at Wellspring, where the fashionista Lulabelle was murdered, oh yeah, also she's a taxi driver and picks up the assassin at a clinch moment. Also, oh yeah, she has some scars, like, around her limbs. And oh yeah, she's also a nurse right when she needs to show up. And it's like, this sci fi world has a literal goddess walking among men and I have so many questions.

Sara: 37:15

So many questions. It's a really nice, I do think it's firmly a sci fi novel, but it has some really nice touches of fantasy, like the dreamwalking where Lulabelle the Assassin meets Simon in her dreams. And I definitely, when we first meet Simon, I thought that he was just kind of faking it, like magic in the real world.

Lilly: 37:41

Oh, he's getting scammed. Some guy was like, come to LA and pay me money and I'll teach you magic. Like, no. He's gonna be human trafficked or scammed.

Sara: 37:52

But he actually does show up in her dreams as a tiger I really like that

Lilly: 37:57

Mm hmm. I also really appreciated that you find out that Simon was not a total doofus.

Sara: 38:03

Yes,

Lilly: 38:04

It's still kind of a dweeb, but not a doofus, important distinction.

Sara: 38:08

yes

Lilly: 38:09

Ugh. And that, I think, maybe that's why the non spoiler section was so hard. Because a lot of the heartwarming aspects of this book were huge spoilers, and like, I didn't want to ruin that for our listeners, so they just have to trust us that we promise. Hey, it's not as sad as we're making it sound.

Sara: 38:29

This is one of those books where it's so much easier to talk about in its totality, just because that payoff is so rewarding, but you don't want to spoil that payoff.

Lilly: 38:40

Okay, well, before we wrap up, we have one very important award to give.

Sara: 38:46

Before we actually give out this award, I am going to call that this book is going to be the superlative what book should be a TV show in our end of year wrap

Lilly: 38:58

Oh yeah, for sure!

Sara: 39:00

Because it would make, it would make an excellent TV show.

Lilly: 39:03

A 13 episode miniseries? Are you kidding me?

Sara: 39:07

be perfect. It would be so perfect.

Lilly: 39:11

Um, and you'd get one, like, ingenue actress who gets to play all these different roles. It'd be all artsy and shit.

Sara: 39:19

It would be her breakout show.

Lilly: 39:21

Oh, I was not even thinking, I mean, that'd be better, but I was just thinking, like, an actress who's been doing fluff but wants to prove that she's

Sara: 39:29

Oh, okay.

Lilly: 39:30

That's what I was thinking.

Sara: 39:31

That's still kind of a breakout show.

Lilly: 39:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but specifically now, Saddest Lulabelle.

Sara: 39:39

For me, it's a toss up between the brunch Lulabelle, who is the Lulabelle that was sent out to have brunch with her friends, and then just left at a bus station, never picked up. There's a line of people who want her to sign autographs. She's barefoot for some reason, her feet are dirty, she's obviously tired and distressed, and she's just sitting there signing autograph after autograph and has been left there for days. So, her, Or the party girl, Lulabelle, who is so utterly depressed and tired of life and tired of going from party to party, who has talked about sleeping in coat closets just to get a little bit of sleep, and is just tragic. And who, when told that Lulabelle, the assassin, is not there to replace her, almost starts crying. And when told that actually she's there to kill her is so relieved that she says, let me go jump off the top of this building and make it a scene.

Lilly: 40:45

Those are good contenders, I agree. The Forgotten Brunch Lulabelle is obviously the saddest because it, it, Jesus, I just called her an it. Like, right there, there you go. I, her situation is just so, there's nothing. She is so dismissed.

Sara: 41:05

And she's also the first Lulabelle who gets killed. And as the series progresses, we spend more and more time with the Lulabelles. Who are the next target, but she's killed, like there's no thought to her, right? Like there was, there was very little thought put into her creation. There's not a lot of thought put into her death, and that's just sad.

Lilly: 41:27

Absolutely. Party girl Lulabelle is so sad clinically.

Sara: 41:34

Yes,

Lilly: 41:36

That girl needs a therapist.

Sara: 41:38

I would argue that many of them need a therapist, but yes,

Lilly: 41:41

Oh, well, they all Lulabelle needs a therapist. Otherwise, why would she make 13 of herself and then start killing each other?

Sara: 41:49

yes.

Lilly: 41:50

I would like to throw out Prudence. She is the housewife, suburbia Lulabelle, married to the childhood sweetheart. Her death is the saddest, because she had children. She had a life, and they theoretically did not know she was a portrait.

Sara: 42:06

I don't necessarily think that her death is the saddest, but I agree that it has the biggest impact on everyone around her because, yeah, they think that she is the original and that the movie star is the portrait.

Lilly: 42:20

Mm hmm.

Sara: 42:21

And she very clearly does not want to die.

Lilly: 42:23

Oh yeah, she fights back, which, ugh, every time one of the portraits fought back, I was just like, thank God. Ha ha ha! But no, I think my true submission for this is the secretary. Spencer's secretary. Because she is so competent, so plugged in, she fully understands what's going on and the implications for all of the Lulabelles around her, and she is trapped in this awful, gross situation.

Sara: 42:54

She's definitely a really sad Lulabelle.

Lilly: 42:57

I mean, they're all sad.

Sara: 42:58

Yeah, I was gonna say, it's hard to give this an award. I don't know if it really qualifies as an award. But it's hard to make this call because they're all terribly, terribly sad.

Lilly: 43:11

And the true original Lulabelle, who is Being, like, exploited on life support, because if she passes away, then mitosis will kill all of her portraits. So she's just being, like, kept in a box forever, no one visits her. I don't think there was even a TV in her room. Like, all she does is exist. Horrifying.

Sara: 43:34

I don't know if there's a TV in her room. I didn't necessarily think that she was being kept alive so much as she was in the process of dying. Does that distinction make sense?

Lilly: 43:46

It does.

Sara: 43:47

Because I'm pretty sure that the movie star Lulabelle has taken precautions so that she's not gonna get caught out when original Lulabelle dies.

Lilly: 43:58

Mmm. I don't think she had yet. I think it was implied that she could.

Sara: 44:03

with

Lilly: 44:05

under the impression that, I guess the text doesn't say cancer, but that was sort of the vibe. There's a point where a person can say, hey, just make me comfortable until I pass away, and the impression I got was that the original Lulabelle was on such extensive life support so that she would not pass away. I don't think it's explicit, I think it's sort of implied, and that's how I read it.

Sara: 44:31

Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't disagree with you that they could have taken her off her support and she could have passed away sooner, but I don't think that they were going to terrible lengths to artificially extend her life so that the other Lulabelles would be okay.

Lilly: 44:50

Interesting. Maybe I was reading

Sara: 44:52

So, like, I think I'm maybe falling in the middle, right? Like, it's not the most generous reading, but it's also not the most cynical reading.

Lilly: 45:00

Yeah. I think it depends on some of the world that we don't get to see, right? Like, this is a sci fi world. How much medicine is there really? Could something have changed for her? I don't know.

Sara: 45:12

Yeah, there's, it kind of is left to reader interpretation.

Lilly: 45:16

Yeah. Well, this book was very good.

Sara: 45:20

It was excellent.

Lilly: 45:25

Well, I have a very short words are weird that I would like to share, and maybe it's just lily is weird.

Sara: 45:34

What, what, is your words are weird?

Lilly: 45:37

I know that quash is a real word and has a different meaning from the word squash, but every time I hear it or see it or read it or whatever, I just think, you're fucking trying too hard. Just say squash. And I know that's not at all, like that's nowhere in the English language, that's just me. But it bothers me so much.

Sara: 46:03

I will say that the more you say quash, the less I think it's a real word. I know it's a real word,

Lilly: 46:10

It shouldn't be! But it shouldn't be! Why is it a word? Okay. To me, quash is irregardless. Like, it's someone trying to sound fancy, so they made up some dumb shit word.

Sara: 46:26

I mean, but that's all words

Lilly: 46:29

okay, fine.

Sara: 46:30

if you, if you go far enough back.

Lilly: 46:32

Well, some words are created to communicate, not just to sound fancy.

Sara: 46:38

Some words.

Lilly: 46:40

But I, it, like, functionally, you could even put squash into most sentences. Oh, I would like to squash that idea. It works fine. Why do you need your fancy pants version?

Sara: 46:54

Is it really fancy if it has less letters?

Lilly: 46:57

It's fancy because it's different.

Sara: 47:00

Okay.

Lilly: 47:00

She's not like other words.

Sara: 47:04

I'll, I'll give you that.

Lilly: 47:07

And I, there's no justification for this.

Sara: 47:11

But it is a weird word. I agree. It's a weird word.

Lilly: 47:15

And you never know how words are going to, like, tick someone off the wrong way. Even if you use one that's perfectly appropriate for what you're trying to say.

Sara: 47:27

Come disagree with us. We're on most social media,

Lilly: 47:31

That is not the first line.

Sara: 47:34

That's not the first line. But you can come disagree with us anyway. Uh, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Lilly: 47:45

Now you can come disagree with us. We are on most social media at FictionFansPod. You could also email us at FictionFansPod at gmail. com.

Sara: 47:55

You'd think we hadn't been doing this for almost three years. Um, if you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.

Lilly: 48:06

We also have a Patreon where you can support us and find our show notes and occasionally a good old fashioned round of Shoot, Screw, or Marry.

Sara: 48:15

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye!