The Prey of Gods

Episode 3

Release Date: 3/3/2021

In this episode of Fiction Fans your hosts can't stop talking about “The Prey of Gods” by Nicky Drayden, with both a spoiler-free overview and an in-depth discussion. The episode also includes: Sara’s struggle with The Wheel of Time Slog, the start of Lilly’s The Witcher adventures, and an attempt to pick their top ten books.

Music provided by Audio Library Plus: “Travel With Us” by Vendredi and “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris” by Amarià.

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

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Episode Transcript*

*this transcript is AI generated, please excuse the mess.

Lilly 00:03

Hello, and welcome to this episode of fiction fans.

Sara 00:07

I'm Lily. And I'm Sarah. Hi.

Lilly 00:10

Hey, Sara, anything great happened to you this week?

Sara 00:14

So I don't know if it constitutes as great, but I had delicious Chinese leftovers for dinner. And I didn't have to go in for jury duty today. So I'm happy. Those are good things.

Lilly 00:26

Yeah, I think those counters Great.

Sara 00:28

Yep. How about you?

Lilly 00:30

Oh, my orchid bloomed so I am aesthetic. What are you drinking? Tonight?

Sara 00:37

I am drinking the remnants of a bottle of red wine that I opened for d&d Yesterday. Not yesterday, Monday.

Lilly 00:44

I was gonna say I didn't think we had the same d&d night.

Sara 00:47

No, we don't have the same d&d night. And once this glass of wine is over, I may just move to water. Or maybe I'll open something else we'll see. But about you.

Lilly 00:59

I am drinking bottom shelf sparkling wine and a mimosa. That sounds delightful. It's the best way to drink both sparkling wine and orange juice.

Sara 01:11

It's a good way of making sure that you get all of that vitamin C. Yes.

Lilly 01:15

I realized maybe I should like, should we not talk so much about how it's Wednesday night? Since that's not how listening to podcasts works?

Sara 01:24

I mean, maybe we haven't actually said that. It's Wednesday night yet?

Lilly 01:29

Not this time. But I think every episode until now, I've said something about it being nighttime or Wednesday.

Sara 01:37

I mean, talking about the alcohol we're drinking is kind of talking about how it's an evening.

Lilly 01:42

That's your access. I just said I'm having a mimosa what else? That's true. It could be 5am.

Sara 01:49

I don't think I could drink my muscles at 5am.

Lilly 01:53

No, no, I don't think so either. No. That would just be more out of protest of it being 5am.

Sara 02:02

So read any good books lately?

Lilly 02:05

Not independently. I think all of my reading recently has been something that we are going to speak very directly about later tonight. So I'm not even going to bring it up. But I think you have

Sara 02:19

I have I have actually done kind of a lot of reading recently not counting podcast reading. I mean, I've done a lot of podcast reading. So I'm still continuing on with crossroads of Twilight, which is book 10 of Wheel of Time. More on that later. I I also read a daughter of flood and Fury by Levi Jacobs, which I bought in a night of tipsy celebration, and quite enjoyed actually, I'm not sure if you would care for it as much because it is first person but it was a really fun, young adult adventure that I enjoyed.

Lilly 02:59

That sounds like a wonderful book for people who aren't me. Yes,

Sara 03:02

exactly. But it was very good. And I am looking forward to the next book, which I think is supposed to come out this year. I hope it comes out because it ended on I want to I want to know what happens next. Oh, that's

Lilly 03:14

great. That's that's the best book I that's how I knew that. I didn't like The Hunger Games, because I liked reading it. But when I got to the twist at the end or the like love triangle twist at the end, I was just like, oh, okay, I'm done. Yeah, like no more of this.

Sara 03:32

Yeah, if you don't want to read the next book, that's, that's a bad sign.

Lilly 03:36

Yeah. I enjoyed the first one. No, never gonna read more.

Sara 03:40

Yeah. And then the other book that I started reading is legacy of the bright wash by Crystal matar, which is a book that actually you might enjoy. It's Gaslamp fantasy. I think they're supposed to be some crime solving in there. I haven't gotten very far.

Lilly 03:58

I do love crime.

Sara 04:00

It's very good. Yeah. It's very good so far.

Lilly 04:05

So you're on book 10 out of 42 or however many Wheel of Time books. Yes. How is that going?

Sara 04:13

So? Well. I know that in the last episode, I said that I didn't think that book 10 deserve to be called part of the slog. And that I didn't really think that any bit of the slog deserve to be called part of the slog. And I am now forced I'm afraid to eat my words. Look, book 10. Yes, the first two pages are good. Those were the bits that I read before recording last episode. Everything else afterwards has been kind of Yes. A slog. Oh, no. Yeah, it's it's not so part of that is a personal problem. And I want to keep this as vague as possible because I don't want to do like huge spoilers for this but I don't think that this will be. I think that if I keep this vague it's not going to be huge spoiler, but there is a pregnancy plotline. And the things that this character does while pregnant are interesting and enjoyable to read about, except that she talks about the pregnancy like, throughout everything, it just permeates her actions. And I am very much not interested in pregnancy plotlines. So I don't want to read about how she has morning sickness or not, and things like that. That just does not interest me. See, on one

Lilly 05:31

hand, that seems very realistic to me. I imagine being pregnant does take over everything to some degree. Oh, yeah. Also, as a reader, if you're not into that,

Sara 05:42

like, I'm not saying that it's bad or not realistic. I'm just saying that like, I don't want to read about it.

Lilly 05:48

And it does color the whole section. Yeah.

Sara 05:52

And then the other thing is that parents chapters are all angst and no action. And I don't really have any interest in reading another chapter where he angst over what's happening.

Lilly 06:06

I assume it's the like, he's the one who's pregnant, right?

Sara 06:09

Yes. So that's, that's how we'll have time is going, I hope to finish this book before we record our next episode. But I cannot guarantee that because it's slow going. And other things are more interesting to read right now.

Lilly 06:27

We have some empty episodes planned. Just to give you time to actually read, we'll have time I know,

Sara 06:33

which is good, because I was making a really good pace through these books. And when we started this podcast, and now suddenly, I'm not making good time at all.

Lilly 06:42

We just needed some variety in the first few episodes. Yeah, this is true. We can hit the Wheel of Time slog in our podcast, just like the Wheel of Time hits a slog in the books. It'll be a perfect synergy.

Sara 06:54

Yes, I'm hoping I have maybe, like 400 pages left. 350 pages left.

Lilly 07:02

That's too many.

Sara 07:05

I'm hoping that I can get through it. And then I'm also hoping that book 11 is less of a slog. We'll see when I get there,

Lilly 07:13

full fingers crossed for you, my dear.

Sara 07:15

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Lilly 07:18

I am also embarking on I'm using the word journey too much.

Sara 07:24

That's like me an interesting.

Lilly 07:25

Yeah, we got we got the Wheel of Time journey journey to the center of the Discworld I stand by. But I cannot also use journey to describe me playing The Witcher. Because that's just too many journeys in one episode of a podcast. But I have started playing The Witcher three that is related to the podcast. It didn't come up when you asked about reading any good books lately, because I have not started the books yet.

Sara 07:53

But you do intend to. Yes,

Lilly 07:54

I do intend to. And I think we I think you should at least read the first one.

Sara 07:59

I want to Yeah.

Lilly 08:02

Yeah. And then, because we both seen the show, which I think I can say we both loved right? Yeah,

Sara 08:08

I enjoyed the show. I would have to rewatch it before we talk about it because things only stick in my in my head for about a week. And then they have to leave to make space for other things.

Lilly 08:18

Well, that's perfect. Eventually we'll have a witcher week, and then an episode on sort of following it through the different adaptations. Cuz I think I'm really excited to look at it that way. I've heard great things about the books, but I cannot play the whole video. Maybe I could play the whole video game in one week, but seems unlikely.

Sara 08:38

Given the other demands on your time. I think that's quite unlikely.

Lilly 08:44

All of that is a very long winded way of saying I have started the Witcher

Sara 08:51

and you're enjoying it so far. Yeah, it's

Lilly 08:53

not so I don't normally play single player games. So it's not like my usual jam. I did play Shadow of Mordor. That was fantastic. Maybe I just have to have that also single player it sorry. Yeah, that's it's also a single player. It's more of a stealth game though. The Witcher is not a stealth game. Maybe I just need like, high fantasy beefcake men. Maybe that's the requirement for me to play a single player video game maybe.

Sara 09:19

Except, except that you had a tweet. Well,

Lilly 09:24

I texted you and that text turned into a tweet about how Geralt is way too skinny. That's an issue I think probably with the armor and character design. And because like looking at him when you look at him, he's not that skinny. But then you realize that his armor is probably pretty thick. And so where is he actually under all of that? And then that's when you go oh, wait. That's because his silhouette looks okay. Does not mean this makes any sense at all.

Sara 09:53

That's very fair.

Lilly 09:54

And that's what made me go like hold on. How much of this is actually him? What's happening? thing.

Sara 10:01

That makes sense. Yeah.

Lilly 10:03

So I think it's maybe more of an armor design issue that I have seen. The

Sara 10:07

question is does he have the same silhouette when he takes off the armor?

Lilly 10:11

No, does it so it opens up the bathtub scene because it's the Witcher and they know we thirst. He has, you know, beefy Garrel. But then he puts on the armor and he doesn't get any bigger is the same size. But now he has like three layers of armor on and that doesn't make any sense.

Sara 10:30

Magic armor.

Lilly 10:32

Maybe it's actually spandex and just looks like armor.

Sara 10:37

And hopefully protect some like armor

Lilly 10:39

high. The way I play No.

Sara 10:43

Are you have the charge in and hit things variety of player?

Lilly 10:47

No, I'm just bad.

Sara 10:50

I definitely play like a, like a barbarian. I just go and hit things and try not to die before I meet them.

Lilly 10:59

I know. We've played we've played multiplayer games before quite a bit. We have. That's normally how I play. But anyway. I don't know how much of that's going to make it in. But I think so. One of my big questions going into my playthrough of the game was How is my background knowledge going to affect my experience in the game? Because I have seen the Netflix show, which is a prequel to the video games. Definitely the third one, I believe all three of them. I'm not actually sure how that timeline works. I think it's before all of them though.

Sara 11:38

Do you know where the Netflix show stands in relation to the books? Like is it a direct adaptation? Or

Lilly 11:45

I believe it's a direct adaptation. One of our friends has read the books. And I think he confirmed that it is their kind of like a series of art like shorts. I shouldn't actually talk about the books like I know anything. I don't, I have not read them yet. I have not researched them. I know nothing.

Sara 12:04

sorry for putting you on the spot like this is my

Lilly 12:07

understanding that the show follows the books very closely. But that means I've watched five plus hours that basically amounts to world building for this game, which is actually very cool.

Sara 12:21

That's a aspect of the game that I hadn't thought about actually, is that you have all of this buildup.

Lilly 12:29

And there's all of these characters who I've met. And I, you know, I'm coming into this with some very strong opinions about all of it love. I love every character in that show, as you should. And so like at the beginning, Yennefer is very mysterious. Geralt is chasing her. He doesn't know where she is. They haven't seen each other in two years. But I am very familiar with Yennefer already. So that's just a very fun like, is there a good version of baggage because I feel like that's what I have. Good baggage. Cute luggage. That's it. Now let's I got a lot of cute luggage going into this video game. I like it. I think the best part is GWENT. I don't know if you're familiar. But Gwent is sort of a mini game inside the Witcher where you it's a card game and you'd like build your deck by buying cards from traders. And you don't have to play it to play the game. But it's sort of it's a very big part. Everyone who I know has played the game has played quite a bit of GWENT. And all of the cards are. They're almost like baseball cards, but for people in the world. But these people aren't actually in the game. They are just characters in from history. So they don't have anything to do with the plot at all. But I know who they are because they're in the show.

Sara 13:49

Oh, that's me.

Lilly 13:51

It's amazing. It's

Sara 13:52

really cool.

Lilly 13:53

So like there's a sorceress, Sabrina of glass of egg. Like I know who she is. And I watched her grow up in the show. That's, that's dramatic. She's a minor character. But

Sara 14:04

you still have all of this context for her that you'd have if you had played the game without having watched the show.

Lilly 14:10

Yeah, I drew the squint card and I went, Sabrina. And I think the best one is there is a card for King full test of two Marissa and all of the cards have little like, character quotes at the bottom. Very similar to magic cards. That's not the point. But full tests quote. I'm not going to I'm not going to say anything. No spoilers. All I'm going to say is that his Gwent card says it is natural and beautiful that a man should love his sister. And if you've seen the show, you know why that made me burst out laughing but that's such like a quite it's almost like an Easter egg. Retroactive easter egg.

Sara 14:57

Yeah, I was gonna ask, do you know if this game came out. But like where? When did this game come out in relation to

Lilly 15:04

the show? before? And before? Long, long before? Yeah, came out in 2015.

Sara 15:09

Oh, yeah. That's long before the show. Yeah.

Lilly 15:13

But it's very interesting to me how the Witcher, it's this huge universe. And then each different media is like, doing a different piece of it. Which is very cool. And they all work together. And you don't have to have experienced any of them to do to read or watch or play any of the others. Right? I have, it doesn't ruin it. It only makes it better. Like they all work together.

Sara 15:42

Yeah, it just everything that you know about everything that you know about the world enhances your enjoyment of whatever medium, you're experiencing it through.

Lilly 15:54

All of that is all of that is to say Gwent cards. I'm so excited to get every glint card. So I can look at all of the these characters that I love in the show.

Sara 16:06

And sounds like you're having a fun time playing it. I look forward to hearing more updates from you about it.

Lilly 16:12

Honestly, mostly, I've just been killed by wild dogs. I haven't gotten very far. Yeah. Well, back to actual literature.

Sara 16:34

Yes, so the book that we both read for this episode, the prey of Gods by Nikki Drayton. I feel like I should mention that. And this is all coincidence, we did not plan this. It is just that we have very lucky timing. She does have a new book that just came out escaping Exodus symbiosis, which came out on February 23. It's the sequel to escaping Exodus, I believe. We are not talking about either of those two books. But I felt that I felt that it warranted mentioning.

Lilly 17:07

Absolutely. And considering how much fun this book was,

Sara 17:12

like, I would totally I want to go out and and buy both of those books, because I really enjoyed the pray of God's

Lilly 17:19

me too. It was, it was so much fun. Which I feel like it's so different from the book we read last episode, which is very good, but very, like harrowing.

Sara 17:30

Yes, this was a this was definitely a me kind of book. It dealt with. I mean, it dealt with some big themes, too. And there was a lot of definite, but it was just it was upbeat. It was funny. I liked it.

Lilly 17:45

Yeah. Oh, so good. There are some books where you read the back of it. And you just think, wow, what were they? Who wrote this? What were they thinking? Right?

Sara 17:56

This has no relationship whatsoever to the book that I just read? Yeah.

Lilly 18:00

But I actually think that this, the summary on the back of this book, captures it very well. I know, we just talked about how the back of the book is a very accurate representation of this book. Don't read it. Don't read the back of the book, I should say, just go straight. Just just read the novel. It's so quick. It's like what 200 page 375 pages of 20 point font like, it goes so fast. It

Sara 18:29

does go very quickly. I disagree. I think that you should read well, I think that if you were interested in this book after our discussion, the non spoilery bits of the discussion, I think absolutely you can read the back of the book, but you should still read the book.

Lilly 18:46

I had such a fun time discovering these things that were apparently on the back of the whole

Sara 18:53

thing. Like I mean, I did read the back of the book. I'm the one who chose the book. So like I read the summary. But they still came as not necessarily a surprise, but kind of a surprise. Like, I wasn't expecting them to show up when they like all of those points there. I wasn't expecting to show up when they do. And so it still felt new and fresh.

Lilly 19:14

Yes, absolutely. The first half is mostly setting the scene. This book takes place in a I'll call it a near future. South Africa.

Sara 19:24

Well, it takes place in the 2060s I think that's the near future. Yeah. So 40 years from now.

Lilly 19:30

Yeah. It's pretty similar to today. The technology is a little bit more advanced, but it's not like it's not like Star Trek.

Sara 19:41

Right? They have adorable, adorable personal robots that I kind of want one.

Lilly 19:45

Yes, the owl sees

Sara 19:47

the news. You know

Lilly 19:49

that old internet history YouTube video of the lady crying because she just wants to hug every cat and she knows she can't hug every cat and she thinks about all the cats. She can't hug. It sounds vaguely familiar. That was me sobbing about all of the selfies in this book and I want to hug every Alfie. Yes.

20:12

And I just, I just think about all the selfies that no one is hugging and I could be the one hugging them, but I'm not.

Sara 20:20

They reminded me of pugs. I mean, maybe that's just because I'm a pug person. I like it's because

Lilly 20:30

well, there are so sweet. Which, I mean, is sort of a hilarious thing in and of itself to say because they are robots. There's basically smartphones, right? But with arms, for the most part,

Sara 20:46

for the most part,

Lilly 20:48

but we see them develop, or some of them develop. Some of the main characters are Alfie's. This book does jump around with characters, there's a cast of maybe five POV characters, maybe fewer, like four or five, right. And one of them is the Alfie of one of the other main characters. And so we actually get to see their, like internal monologue, except it's a robot. So it's not exactly a monologue.

Sara 21:20

But it's really interesting. I mean, it's interesting to see how that develops over the course of the book and how it gets more of an individual monologue than it has in the beginning. And it's

Lilly 21:35

frankly, hilarious to see an interpretation of the scene we just read from the perspective of a 16 year old boy, as interpreted by his Alfie. Yeah, exactly. It's great. Oh, my gosh,

Sara 21:50

it is so good.

Lilly 21:51

They're so charming. They are. All of the characters are so very complicated, so very human. Even if the character isn't necessarily human, in a way that is just so fun to read. Yeah, they have a lot of

Sara 22:03

depth to them. And then the villain, I think it's really interesting, and I'm stealing your talking point here. But the villain, you don't realize that she is the villain until about a third of the way through the book. And because of the way in which she's introduced, she comes off initially as a very relatable character.

Lilly 22:28

Extremely Yeah. I loved her. Yeah, I love her the whole time. But it's thing. It's a she. Spoiler.

Sara 22:37

No, because you know that there's an ancient demigod is hell bent on regaining her former status.

Lilly 22:42

See what I don't even interpret that as, like, I don't even want to say that. That's the bad guy. Because that could just be a quirky, like,

Sara 22:51

I preying on the blood and sweat, but mostly blood of every human she encounters.

Lilly 22:56

Okay, fine. Yes. That's probably a little sketch a

Sara 23:00

little bit. It's on the back

Lilly 23:02

of the book. It's not a spoiler, right. It's not a spoiler.

Sara 23:04

All right. I think I think that one is entirely fair game.

Lilly 23:09

Okay. I clearly did not read the back of the book before I read this book.

Sara 23:15

Well, I was the one who chose it. So yeah, makes sense that you didn't bother to read the back of the book.

Lilly 23:20

I do this. Like, I don't watch trailers, either. If I'm gonna watch a movie, I'm gonna watch it. And okay, I'll say like, I did not know that that character was an antagonist. I did not even know until like you said about a third. We're halfway through the book.

Sara 23:36

Yeah. When, when it's revealed that she's the dummy goddess, or a dummy goddess, I started to think, okay, she's probably not the sympathetic character that I thought she was. And then I think pretty shortly thereafter, she starts doing some bad stuff. So then it became very clear,

Lilly 23:53

but she doesn't not nice stuff pretty early on. But it's like, novel, not nice stuff. So you're like,

Sara 24:00

all right. It's also she's working as a downtrodden customer service, like in a customer service position. And the stuff that she's doing is maybe not hugely nice, but it's also like, yeah, you're just scraping by and you're doing what you have to in order to, like, pay your bills.

Lilly 24:19

Oh, we might have to move this to the spoilery section. But I I did not catch on that she was the bad guy, even when she started murdering people. I thought that was just a personality core.

Sara 24:36

I mean, I don't think again, because of what's on the back of the book. I don't think that's particularly spoilery. Okay, they do. They do talk about the, you know, blood and sweat, but mostly blood.

Lilly 24:46

It took me maybe I shouldn't be embarrassed for how long it took me to be alive, but she was the bad guy.

24:53

Because we that's the thing

Sara 24:55

like she's still painted in a very sympathetic light for even when she starts to very visibly black bad stuff. Because we're seeing things from her perspective, she still comes off as mostly sympathetic until you get to a certain point.

Lilly 25:08

But he's also not the only character that kills people. That's true,

Sara 25:13

unrelated to the content of the book. I do want to talk about the two notes that I wrote for this will Yes.

Lilly 25:18

What notes did you write I wrote some notes to I think

Sara 25:21

let's I think your notes are going to be much better than mine. My two notes were one we used to have to taxidermy diptychs at my former place of employment. diptychs being a type of small antelope. I believe that only small though, they're like, really, really tiny.

Lilly 25:40

I'm still gonna say cat sized, they're like cat sized. Yeah,

Sara 25:43

they're cat sized or small dog sized. And we had to taxidermied diptychs at my former place of employment. And I really wanted to buy them because they were super cute. But they were also like, $800. So no,

Lilly 25:56

a little, a little pricey for something really cute. It's a little

Sara 25:59

it's a little pricey for a piece of taxidermy. But I don't actually know where I would put it.

Lilly 26:04

That's relevant, because in this near future, South Africa, they're dealing with a diptych infestation. Yeah, that's the right word infestation.

Sara 26:13

Yeah, the tactics are everywhere. And then my other note was that, so we just talked about how is evil but we love her anyway. And she has a coffee table that she uses as a torture device. But it sounds really awesome. And I kind of want it for my living room. I have the quote that she gives to describe her coffee table. At the tables base is an ancient slab of ebony wood with thick iron spikes jutting up in a simple yet pleasing checker pattern, suspend a man over it, and it becomes an effective torture device breeding fear by the bushel. Top it with a nice piece of beveled glass toss in a couple of coasters. And tada, perfect place to rest and drink or TV dinner. And like that just sounds like an amazing coffee table. Like it would it would be so architectural.

Lilly 27:09

I want it sure would be a statement piece, it

Sara 27:11

would be a statement piece. I don't want to torture people over it. I would keep the glass on. But it just sounds really cool.

Lilly 27:20

I I'm not that exact piece. But one of my bookmarks was also for because this book was written in the very close third person point of view, which I have discussed at length, how annoyed I get by first person, but close third person is my jam. Give me all of the bias. But let me pretend it's someone else saying it. I cannot explain why I am that way. I do not know why I am the way I am. But I just think especially for a humorous look like this. It really works.

Sara 27:58

The format really works for this book. Yeah. So well.

Lilly 28:01

I love that close third person where the narrator is so clearly telling you exactly what they think and feel.

Sara 28:11

There's a pretend gap between you and the and the narrator.

Lilly 28:15

And that just makes everything just a little bit funnier to me. Maybe it's just how I like my humor books. Because the first person book we read last episode, I liked. It's not humorous, right? So maybe that's the thing, although I feel like Lord of the Rings is sort of, it's not as close third person as this, but it's also a very, very close third person, a very characterized narrator. Right, right. That's just what that's just what I like. And this book delivers it. Yeah.

Sara 28:47

Yeah. I'm so glad that we decided to read this book, because it was so worth it.

Lilly 28:53

Absolutely. avoid spoilers skip forward to 4825. I also Okay, so apparently, some of my opinions were slingshotting back and forth because I did not read the back of the book and had no idea what was going on. But reading this book as a blank slate, my opinions of the characters were so fluid in such a satisfying way. I mean, the very first character is musi the 16 year old boy. And I think he's the first point of view. Yeah,

Sara 29:38

I think so. Yeah. And I think

Lilly 29:43

about disabled the real mean about 16 year old boys. Oh, his friend elkon is not a point of view character. But one of the, I would say main characters in the story,

Sara 29:56

and he's definitely a main supporting character. Yeah,

Lilly 29:59

and And you just as you learn more about him, or at least as I did, my opinion of him, fluctuated so much. Yeah. All over the place. Yes. Yeah. Every every section that he was in, I was flip flopping. Just, it was like a seismograph. It was wild. But it was fantastic. And it wasn't because he was acting out of character. It was because I was learning new things about his character. We did pick another book with sexual assault in it.

Sara 30:32

We did. We did. Accidentally. Well,

Lilly 30:37

of course, obviously. It's not nearly as as graphic. It's really just mentioned. But I do think it's worth just saying like, hey, that is something that happens in this book.

Sara 30:50

Yeah. Because it is because it's being told from novelist point of view. It feels very, like, present when it's happening.

Lilly 31:01

Oh, I wasn't even talking about her talk about her mom. Oh,

Sara 31:05

yeah. I mean, her mom definitely like that's not shown in the book that's just told, right. But she almost gets raped. Right. Which, like, I was not expecting. And that was obviously not as graphic as who first asked, but it was still quite like, there was an

Lilly 31:30

extremely upsetting. Yeah, it was because it's from Nam viewless point Nam Beulah Nam Beulah.

Sara 31:38

I'm saying nones Lulu, that's how I would default to pronounce it. Okay. But I don't know if that's correct or not.

Lilly 31:47

Part of how horrifying it is, is because it's from Nam villas point of view. And she's What 1110 She's extremely young. She's quite young. Yeah. And so she doesn't clearly doesn't understand what's happening. Yeah. So the narration is very apt honestly reminded me of Lolita.

Sara 32:07

I haven't read Lolita. So that's fine. But the

Lilly 32:11

narrator describing something in a certain way, and then you slowly realizing oh, oh, that is not what's actually happening right now. And that sort of dawning dread in rice poll was similar. Yeah, I wouldn't. I would not compare this book to Lolita in any way except for that. So why, why should someone read this book?

Sara 32:36

Because it is funny, has cute robots, and compelling characters.

Lilly 32:43

It's also very sweet.

Sara 32:45

It is very sweet. There's I'm not usually a huge fan of like, sweet things.

Lilly 32:53

I know I have a sweet tooth between the two of us and it shows

Sara 32:57

in food and in a book test. Yes. But it is it is a very sweet book. There's a lot of I mean, there's good romance. Not really, hugely prevalent, but like, as sort of underpinning the story. But there's also just good platonic relationships between all of the characters. And like museun has Alfie.

Lilly 33:20

We haven't talked about Stoker at all.

Sara 33:22

Stoker is wonderful. I mean, it's it's rare that I read a book and I like all of the main point of view characters as much as I liked all of the main point of view characters in this book. It's true.

Lilly 33:34

I will, like you said, I also loved all of the characters. But I think Stoker and Rhea were the two those were the two that I felt were basically blameless. Yeah, I everyone else I'm like with you at least once. Yes. Was those two I like you were clearly trying your best at every moment?

Sara 33:53

Yeah. I think what I like best about Rhea and Stoker is how, as you learn more about, like, they're not perfect people. But as you learn more about them, you see that they're doing the best they can with what they have to work with.

Lilly 34:17

They're also a very good pair to discuss because they were both being exploited in similar but different ways. Yeah. Right, because Because RIA is a pop star, which I don't have to explain to you. That's inherently exploitative, and Stoker as a politician, like being exploited by their parents. So Stoker is Stoker's last name, which is why I feel okay, referring to the character that way. But she does transition into Felicity partway through the book, and I don't

Sara 34:56

I think that that because she ends the book is Felicity and Felicity is clearly like who she wants to be. Yeah, I think that we should respect that and call her her.

Lilly 35:08

Okay. I agree. I didn't want to do that in the non spoilery parts, though, right? Because that is like a, that's such a huge moment for her it is

Sara 35:17

especially because she starts out, not necessarily wanting to make that transition, or not feeling comfortable to make enough to make that transition. So as you see that progress, you're like, Oh, my God, I'm so happy for you. Yeah, I want this for you.

Lilly 35:35

And the way she just like, gives two middle fingers to her parents was just like, yeah.

Sara 35:44

I have a really, I marked a quote about her transition, if I can find it. There is unrelated to Stoker, there is a quote that the Alfea the all fake calls another says about another Alfie, that sneaky, no good son of a bit, which I really liked.

Lilly 36:03

I did love that.

Sara 36:06

I was just very, very clever. This book is hilarious. So funny. Like I was laughing the entire time,

Lilly 36:14

but not in like a slapstick jokey way.

Sara 36:17

Okay, I don't I don't think somehow I didn't mark it. But it was about how she saw a picture of herself in a dress and was struck by, like, how happy she looked. And that's kind of I feel like that's kind of the turning point for where she realizes, Oh, I am Felicity. That's not just who I am pretending to be some of the time. But I thought it was just a really human moving moment. Yeah. And I liked it. It stuck with me.

Lilly 36:50

And it made me so like, like you said, just so happy. You really celebrate their triumphs, even the like quiet internal ones.

Sara 36:57

Exactly. And like, when she finds the strength to step up to her mother and say, No, this is who I am. I'm like, Yes, you go.

Lilly 37:08

And I really love that her mother then turns around and goes, well, all right. Like she clearly wasn't a super supportive mom, right? Like, there's there's some, there's some fucked up shit going on there. There's

Sara 37:23

definitely there are definitely issues there. But she comes through when it counts.

Lilly 37:27

Yeah. Well, she absolutely does. And and I feel like part of her was maybe waiting for Felicity to say, like, this is my, this is the line in the sand. Right? Like, yeah, that probably gives the mother too much benefit of the doubt. But I feel I get the impression that as soon as Felicity stood up for herself, her mother was like, Okay, you're running the show. Now? I pass on the baton. Right? Like, because before she was clearly the one to charge. Yeah.

Sara 38:02

Yeah.

Lilly 38:06

I am such a sucker for the belief gives you power trope.

Sara 38:13

I don't know. I mean, I don't know if it's a trope. The only place that and maybe this is just because I haven't, I'm not very well read in this particular aspect. But the only other places that I can recall seeing it is in Discworld and Terry Pratchett.

Lilly 38:28

Yeah. It's very, very somatic and Discworld? Yeah.

Sara 38:31

I mean, there's a whole book about it. And discord. Yeah.

Lilly 38:35

At least I think it was more than one. I mean, there's, there's, so that's definitely how that world operates. Yeah. So maybe that's a particular thing for me, but I really enjoy that system. Where the more belief that exists, the more power a person has. I think this book takes it a step further because they also chi Nikki also incorporates fear also giving power, but not as much. Not as much. Sidney who we ultimately find out is the bad guy. She lies to Nam Beulah at some point.

Sara 39:13

I mean, she certainly hides the fact that she wants to kill Nomvula for quite some time. And because Nan villa is a very young girl, she doesn't cottoned on to the fact that actually her big sister Sydney is not quite as

Lilly 39:30

Nabila was suspicious of her. She's suspicious,

Sara 39:35

but but she has this whole point where she's like, I know Sydney's not great, but she's better than what I had. And if I'm just a little bit better, like she'll love me and we'll be family. Yes, he's not whereas Sydney from the very beginning is thinking I'm gonna kill this little girl.

Lilly 39:53

Right? She definitely like knows that Sydney is lying to her but she thinks that there's a possible

Sara 40:00

ability. Yes, yes. And she doesn't imagine that Sydney will go so far as to actually attempt to murder her.

Lilly 40:07

Maybe not. Definitely not.

Sara 40:09

I definitely afraid of her, but she's afraid of, but she doesn't think that she's gonna murder her until Sydney is legit is literally saying like, I'm gonna come back here so I can kill you.

40:19

Okay, fair enough.

Sara 40:21

One of the things that I really liked about this book was how everything was interconnected. Oh, so well, too. Yeah, yes, it all fits together really seamlessly. And this is also evident in how all of these background characters that you don't, that really only show up once or twice ended up all being part of like the same family. Like they all weave into the plot. And I think it's really interesting how that happens.

Lilly 40:51

So I mentioned when we first talked about reading this book, that is like, oh, then I'll read some Asimov because like, this gives, like the technology, the the robots becoming people, which we haven't even talked about yet. haven't even talked about it. There's so much to talk about this book. But originally, I thought, like, Oh, I'll read some Isaac Asimov. Because this was like, just the concept of, of robots gaining sentience. You know, I made that leap. I made that connection. But the more of this I read, I actually felt like it had more in common thematically with Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, which, as we all know, is the OG science fiction. And in the same way that this reminded me of Isaac Asimov's work, what the original science fiction was, was exploring the definition of humanity, and where those definitions blur,

Sara 41:46

which this book does very, very well.

Lilly 41:49

Absolutely. Oh, my God, from both sides, which is why I wanted to bring in the robots because on one end, we get the blurring of humanity between what's the difference between a human and a God like a handful of believers and addicted virus. But then what is the difference between a robot and a human is just like a quirk of code, basically.

Sara 42:13

Well, and that's also that's also further complicated by the fact but at the end of the book, we end up with Moses consciousness in an Alfie.

Lilly 42:25

This book is full of good characters doing understandably bad things. Yes. Because we were talking about you know, musi is not a great part will not even partner they don't even know if they're boyfriends or not, until literally the last chapter of the book. By the very end

Sara 42:49

of the book, they have decided that they are boyfriends in one

Lilly 42:53

chapter. Elkins is like, he's not my friend. He's my I don't know. And then musi becomes a mech suit, a giant robot that Elkind drives that he's like, I have the best boyfriend ever. And it it that's another part in the book where I had to stop and cheer for the characters because I was so happy for them.

Sara 43:16

I love how they go from sort of figuring out oh, we're friends, maybe with benefits to actually we really like and care about each other, and would sacrifice quite a lot for the other. And we're boyfriends now.

Lilly 43:33

Yeah, it's just that it's a great progression. That gross. Yes. And but also, it's not frustrating, because you understand why they're confused. And it's not. It's not one of those things where you're like, just talk to each other. What's wrong, you know, the

Sara 43:51

issues they have with each other are not something that could necessarily be worked out just by like, having a one conversation.

Lilly 44:00

And it's compounded by the fact that musi is discovering his god powers at the same time where he can control people in their memories. And he uses that against Elgin, which is not okay. But Elkins says that and musi is very upfront with like, that he knows he's doing something wrong when he does it. And I appreciate that about this book very

Sara 44:25

much. There. None of the characters think that they're doing the right thing when they're not.

Lilly 44:31

I love how novelists power at the end comes from all of the elfies believing and speaking of how everything clicks together, like that was such like a perfect full circle. Right? The Alfie's gave humanity that humans gained godhood and it's the Alfie's that believe in the humans, the human Nabila, although the true full circle, we haven't talked about Rio very much, which is I don't think we're going to have time to but that's a damn shame. Because she's fantastic. She

Sara 45:03

is, like I said, everyone is really good, but she is really good.

Lilly 45:08

I feel like we talked about the characters that we have more complicated feelings towards more because that's more interesting. But Riya and Felicity

Sara 45:17

Felicity, when we're introduced to her is a sort of unhappy politician and that she doesn't really want to go into politics. She wants to be a pop star. And I love the progression from but she wants to help people more than anything. And I love the progression from unhappy politician to Felicity to Felicity as politician who was going to run for president like I think that is a great like circle in and of itself.

Lilly 45:50

Oh, such a good character progression. Yeah, she she wasn't unhappy because she was a politician. She was unhappy because she couldn't be Felicity Yes, but she didn't really understand that right. And so her like stepping up during the chaos at the climax, you know, Sydney is fighting the whole country or whatever with the monsters. It's, it's good. I'm just not going to go into it. Do you know? Do you know what I have 0% problem with, but also did not see coming at all. That's not even the right way to say it. I don't have zero like, I have no problem with that. Plot lies. I love it. I didn't even know I was supposed to be rooting for it until it happened. Ria raising Nan Vela. Yeah. When the book ended that way, with with Nabila talking about her new mom, and like she had a nightmare and like mom took care of her. I was like

Sara 46:57

yes, yes, I love that aspect of the

Lilly 47:00

day. Because both of these sweet sweet girls went through such garbage in very different ways. And Nabila has like finally has a any, any human being shot even like any creature, who is like, truly out for her best interests for the first time.

Sara 47:23

She finally has a proper family, which is something that she really like, I want have wanted for her from the very beginning of the book, basically,

Lilly 47:35

like she's been struggling through so much garbage. I didn't realize how happy I would be with Rhea taking time off to be a mother. When that line was first dropped in someone else's perspective. I think it was movies. And I was like, oh, did rice get her pregnant? Like what? Yeah,

Sara 47:58

that was what I saw. That was what I thought that she had a kid and I was like, oh, that's moving really fast.

Lilly 48:04

Yeah. She had been pregnant the whole time, ya know? And it's like, oh, oh,

Sara 48:11

and then you discover that it's nonverbal. And you're like, Oh, yes, I support that. But I also, I also love the very hands at the end that the troubles are not over.

Lilly 48:29

The prayer of Gods by Nikki Dryden not only creates a rich world, with both magic and technology, in a very fun sort of competition with each not even competition with each other, just in a very fun interaction with each other. I

Sara 48:45

think I think coexistence Yeah, like, it's nice. It's nice to see these things, just sort of they both exist. And there's not really any more mentioned made of it. Yeah.

Lilly 49:00

It just so and so that world is absolutely fun to read about. And then, as I think you mentioned, every single character is so complicated, complex, complicated, is dramatic. They're also complex with so many ups and downs, and you rip your hair out when they make a bad decision, but you cheer with every success that they have. And it is just so much fun. And so rewarding. I would say absolutely. Read this book. If you're into sci fi. It's also very thoughtful. So any of you secret philosophy group, like buffs? Read this book. It'll be worth it.

Sara 49:42

Yeah. I am going to leave you with a quote from Rhea. Maybe not the most descriptive quote of the book, but I like it. The edges of Rhea nitrogens lips spread pulling slightly upward and not even because she's forcing them. Oh, hell no. Oh, she's not about to be happy, happy doesn't pay the bills. It's all angst and melodrama and attitude. She turns that in your smile into a snarl. I love her. I love her. I have to quote her. I had to

50:27

Sarah Yes, Lily words are so weird.

Sara 50:33

Tell me how words are weird.

Lilly 50:36

I understand that this is a personal problem. But I cannot for the life of me spell research. I don't think I have ever written like hand written the word research and spelled it correctly ever in my entire life. When I'm typing it, obviously, I get the red squiggle and I go, Oh, yeah, that's wrong. Or what I'm proofreading and I'm thinking about it. I can say, oh, yeah, that's wrong. Because intellectually I know that this word is spelled r e s. E AR ch.

Sara 51:16

I like to think about that. I really

Lilly 51:17

did. Well, that's the thing. If I think about it, I can spell it right. But my instinct is, every single time R E A, S E R ch. I realized that this is not great podcast content, because I was throwing letters at you. But please, just just for a moment, everyone. Close your eyes and think with me. Research. R EA, RI. Search. s er ch. Doesn't that feel better? No, it does, though. Why is search spelled s e AR? Ch That's dumb.

Sara 52:00

I mean, I couldn't tell you why search is spelled SCA s er.

52:07

Yeah, got you.

Lilly 52:08

I've infected you now.

Sara 52:14

I couldn't I couldn't tell you why search is spelled with an A. But like, I have never once thought research should switch the position of that a

Lilly 52:27

words are weird.

Sara 52:29

Words are weird. This is very true.

52:38

Okay, we're ready to do some top 10 books.

Lilly 52:41

We can't have a conversation about each book.

Sara 52:44

No, we cannot have a conversation about each book. And before we start, I would like to say thank you to Benjamin on Twitter, that's at literature and low five, for suggesting that we discuss our top 10 series or books. I am going to cheat a little bit and say that one series counts as like one spot, which is also kind of doing myself a disservice because I could not figure out what, like I didn't have any difficulties figuring out my top three, and then the other seven I struggled with. So I've might not have actually 10 that I would have 10 If a series did not count as one book or one spot.

Lilly 53:27

So and Jimin is lovely. I see his alerts all the time. I don't actually do Twitter, but I do get our notifications.

Sara 53:35

Yes, I'm the Twitter goblin behind all of our word vomit tweets.

Lilly 53:43

I think first, we should each just run through our titles. You and then me, and then we talk about them.

Sara 53:52

Okay. I think you should go first, because my titles, again, are very nebulous. I also would like to point out that for both of us, I think and you can correct me if I'm wrong here. But this is more of a snapshot of our top 10 books on this date.

Lilly 54:09

This is our genuine selves. As we come to you today. Would you like to hear my top 10 books today?

Sara 54:16

I would like to hear what your top 10 books of the day are.

Lilly 54:22

I didn't write down all of the authors that I've just realized that. Oops. You're gonna get some half and half nonsense, okay. American Gods by Neil Gaiman, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley. Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit by Tolkien, data classism. Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald, helter skelter Cold Comfort Farm A Long Way to a Small Angry Planet. A new bus gates by Tim Powers

55:00

Those are good books.

Lilly 55:03

They're my top 10.

Sara 55:05

Some of them I mean, there are some of them that I didn't care for as much. But in general, I think that's very strong list.

Lilly 55:12

They're all good, though. You can't deny that.

Sara 55:16

Some of them have have qualities, which I do not appreciate, but the rest of the world seems to.

Lilly 55:24

You just don't like The Great Gatsby. You haven't even read it. No, you have read it.

Sara 55:27

I haven't read The Great Gatsby. I have read Frankenstein, it didn't much care for it.

Lilly 55:32

Fun fact, I also did not the first time I read it, I think I had to read it two or three times. And then it was like, it hit me. I don't know, it hooked into my brain.

Sara 55:44

Okay, so again, with the caveat that it's not really 10. So, the Lord of the Rings series, but I'm including not just the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but like all of the related mythos.

Lilly 56:01

Everything by Tolkien, number one God,

Sara 56:04

basically everything by Tolkien. Except that that I mean, like he has works that are not part of the Lord of the Rings, everything in Middle Earth by talking everything. Yeah, I do like his non Miller stuff, too. But everything but this slot can only be one of them. Yes, yes. So all of the middler stuff. Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. All of the Discworld books by Terry Pratchett and we're not talking about our reasons for liking books yet, right? Yeah, not Yeah. Okay. So the in the series by Sherwood Smith, and then, over the rim of the world selected letters by Freya Stark and dashing for the post the letters of Patrick Leigh fermor, that's seven. I have three more to go. I don't have another three. I probably, if I had to add another three, I would say the Merlin conspiracy by Diana Wynne Jones, and the chronicles of Prydain, which is a series of five books by Lloyd Alexander. That leaves me with one.

57:22

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait,

Sara 57:24

I take it back. I take it back. I totally forgot Andrew Cartmel. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Andrew, the vinyl detective by Andrew carpel.

Lilly 57:31

I thought you wrote these down.

Sara 57:34

I did not write these down. I absolutely did. All right.

Lilly 57:38

That's very clear. Because we actually, no joke had a very long conversation about the vital detective before we started recording. And both of us forgot entirely. We did yeah. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of fiction fans. You can get in touch with us on Instagram and Twitter at fiction fans pod

Sara 58:10

or you can shoot us an email at fiction fans pod@gmail.com

Lilly 58:14

If you've enjoyed this episode, please rate review and subscribe and have a fantastic evening.

Sara 58:23

They're probably not listening to this in the evening.

Lilly 58:26

I don't know however podcasts work.

Sara 58:30

Have a wonderful 24 hours.

Lilly 58:32

Sounds great. Have a wonderful 24 hours.

Sara 58:37

See you next time.