The Last Wish (The Witcher) & Wyrd Sisters with The Friends Talking Fantasy Podcast
- Fiction Fans
- Jul 8, 2021
- 27 min read
Updated: Dec 21, 2023
Episode 12
Release Date: 7/7/2021
In this episode, your hosts welcomed Charles and Dylan from the Friends Talking Fantasy podcast to discuss “The Last Wish” (first installation of the Witcher Saga) by Andrzej Sapkowski. They dove into the collection of short stories on its own, and compared it to the Video Game and Netflix adaptations. Charles and Dylan also joined the Journey to the Center of the Discworld with a conversation about “Wyrd Sisters” by Terry Pratchett. Sara was also finally joined by someone who knows anything about Wheel of Time for her update on “The Towers of Midnight” (#13) by Brandon Sanderson. You can find more from the Friends Talking Fantasy Podcast here: https://www.theftfpodcast.com/ https://twitter.com/TheFTFPodcast1 https://www.instagram.com/theftfpodcast/ Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:
Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”
Scott Buckley for the use of “Twilight Echo”
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
Episode Transcript*
*this transcript is AI generated, please excuse the mess.
Lilly 00:05
Hello, and welcome to fiction fans, a podcast where we read books. And other words, too. I'm Lily.
Sara 00:12
And I'm Sara. And I am so thrilled that today we have with us the wonderful duo of Charles and Dylan from the friends talking fantasy podcast.
00:21
That's us. Yes. Hello. Yeah, we're happy to be here. Yeah,
Sara 00:24
happy to have you.
Lilly 00:27
It's so nice to be the hosts. This time you get to be our guest.
00:31
I was gonna say it's super nice to be the guest. This time. I'm just here. I'm going with the flow, you know, not recording or responsible for editing, whatever.
00:41
You're responsible for all the things I might say at this point from here on.
Lilly 00:47
Oh, wait, can I do that, Sarah? It's always your fault now. No. I'm sorry, Dylan set the precedent I'm allowed to.
Sara 00:57
But see, Dylan is the Sarah of their duo. I get to do that. You don't get to.
Lilly 01:05
I'm sorry. I called it. Before this devolves into too much nonsense. Let's kick Julie. I know. It's gonna be a good show. Let's kick this off with something great that happened this week. Sarah, I know you prepared something. So I'll call on you. First.
Sara 01:22
I did. So Neil Gaiman announced that there's going to be a season to have good omens. And I am cautiously optimistic that that qualifies for my something good.
Lilly 01:33
cautious optimism that that's still great. It's better than dread, I suppose. Yeah.
Sara 01:38
I mean, I'm, I'm more enthusiastic about season two than I was about season one when it was first announced.
Lilly 01:45
So I mean, they've proven their chops, right? Yeah.
01:49
It's a great show. I like it. Yeah, I
Sara 01:51
was kind of astounded to learn that both of you didn't realize that that was the case.
01:57
Yeah, we're a big TV fan. So we see a lot of stuff.
Sara 02:03
So now I have to get you guys to read good omens,
02:06
you could probably talk me into that. Okay, got it. You got us to read Weird Sisters. So good. omens won't be that hard to sell?
Sara 02:14
I will keep that in under consideration.
Lilly 02:18
How about either review? Anything great happen?
02:21
Don't you? Would you like to do the honors of? Well, I
02:24
start playing tennis again after a pretty long break. So yeah, that was pretty big for me. Tennis a big part of my life. So yeah, but I wasn't playing for a while I lower injury. So start playing again. I'm excited to get back into it.
Lilly 02:40
Oh, that's great. And just in time to enjoy the summer. Yeah,
02:43
definitely. Well, for me, I guess I would say I have my my mother's coming to visit I just doing a lot of like Home Improvement stuff. And I barely know how to hold a drill. So the little accomplishments like oh, I hung a shelf today is like, you know, it's pretty awesome. And then yet, we got to you know, record recently with just a quick plug for fantasy for the ages, Jim and Zach. They had us on their show. And that was so much fun, too. So always excited to talk fantasy. And I've been looking forward to that we plan this months ago. So I'm just like, super excited to let the States finally come.
Lilly 03:22
I know we've been like watching this episode steadily approach on our calendar. Like, it's an friends talking fantasy episode. It's finally here.
03:30
I know. It's exciting. I will say really quickly. I've already told the story like maybe twice on our show, but I'll say it really quickly at the top here. When we did all systems read the murder bot diaries on our show. I get two separate text messages from my parents separately. And they're like, oh, that show you did with those two with those two women. It was really good. Okay. Something about our collaboration really spoke to them and they loved it. And that's kind of like what they keep going back to. That is that episode. I'm like, okay, okay, I see. So, our fans loved you guys on so we're super happy to return the favor now.
Sara 04:10
I think your parents of your parents have been taste.
04:14
Fantastic taste.
04:16
I was like, Okay, well, you know, that makes sense. It was a great episode. I was like, have you read all systems right now? Neither one of them have read it, but they enjoyed the episode. Anyway. I don't know what they got out of it. But they enjoyed it.
Lilly 04:28
My mom listens to our episodes and hasn't read any of the books either. I don't know. Just
Sara 04:33
bought some of them though, hasn't you?
04:37
I'm just very excited to hear your mom your wonderful mother Rosemary Charles. If she happens to bring it up again when she's visiting. So and tell her I say hi Charles.
04:49
Well, I will do that. And you know I've when this episode airs. I'll have something else right. I'm gonna listen to like,
04:55
okay, yeah, let us know next time. We'll be around. Alright,
Lilly 05:01
Well, my great thing is that I went camping last weekend, a friend of mine organized and all vaccinated women camping trip to the Olympic Peninsula. And so we went out there for four days, and it was during the middle of the heatwave in the Pacific Northwest. So it was a situation.
05:22
Are you like an experienced camper? Or was this like some new ground for you?
Lilly 05:27
I am awesome. I don't usually go camping in like 115 degree heat.
Sara 05:36
Yeah. Sounds kind of miserable.
Lilly 05:40
We didn't go hiking at a rainfall. That was like walking through soup. Wasn't what I got out of the house. I saw a new place. It was so wonderful.
05:52
Oh, that is exciting. That is a good thing.
Lilly 05:56
Other than that anyone read anything good lately, other than podcast stuff, because we all know everything that we read for this podcast is good.
06:03
Okay. Can we say stuff that we're reading over for FDF artifacts space by Christian camera, while miles Cameron is a name that he uses when he's writing sci fi and fantasy is really awesome. I'm really enjoying that one. And I'm going to be a broken record with the tennis stuff because I'm kind of getting back into it open by Andre Agassi. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mean to keep bringing it up. But I am reading it and it's a really good book. So yeah, that's that's been enjoyable, of course. Went to Weird Sisters and pumped to get into discussing that. i Yeah, full disclosure. I didn't reread The Witcher stuff in anticipation of this. But I you know, up here from our last read
06:55
Yeah, Dylan and I have a very identical reading schedule between Witcher weird sister and artifacts base that's kind of taken up all my reading commitments. And I'm, you know, I was enjoying Yeah, when
07:05
you pick up open by Andre Agassi. Charles. Next up, that's
07:08
next on my TBR I haven't seen on our schedule. Exactly. Yeah, I haven't read that one yet. But
Sara 07:18
you guys did have a wonderful interview with Myles Cameron right. Oh, yeah. He's a great guy that I feel like this is a good opportunity for you to plug that in. As long as I've really enjoyed listening to that.
07:27
Yeah. So right before the book was released, we had the opportunity to interview him. He was super awesome guy and super generous with his time and experience. And he's got a really cool Twitter account. He does these videos called Writing fighting, which I recommend any fan of fiction fans and any fan of ours to check that out over on the Twittersphere. And then yeah, we're gonna have him back on to discuss the book in all of its spoiler filled glory. sometime next week. We have to schedule it, but yeah, yeah, he's
07:57
an awesome, dude.
Lilly 07:58
I can't wait. It sounds awesome.
08:02
Yeah, he's great. Sarah, you
Lilly 08:03
have to ask the next question. So it's not me the whole time. Okay,
Sara 08:07
I will. But are you going to respond to what you've been reading?
Lilly 08:13
Books for the podcast? I would can't pick an answer.
Sara 08:19
My answer for what I've been reading is Towers of Midnight. I was hoping to finish last night but then it was 11 o'clock. And I still had just left.
08:27
Yeah. I saw you tweeting that last night. And I was like, wow, I was mad props if you finish it. So when you told me you didn't know, I was like, okay, at least. At least you're not like some kind of like insanely fast reader.
Sara 08:41
I was. I was a little too optimistic there. But I do really want to finish it tonight. We'll see if that happens. It's only 140 pages like that's an hour and a half tops of reading probably
08:51
are faster. So like,
Sara 08:55
I can do it. I am pretty faster. Don't ask me how well I remember things that I read but not relevant. I do at least. Yeah. Okay, so last question. A very important, the most important. What is everyone drinking tonight?
09:11
I'll go first I did a throwback to the days where Charles and I used to hang out in New Orleans when he lived there. And we would drink a lot of this abita Brewing Company. A betta Purple Haze is a raspberry lager apparently. Oh, yeah, I just grabbed it because for old times sake, Charles when was last time Yeah, I
09:35
appreciated the purple. Hey, yeah, maybe. Maybe
09:39
these days we'll all get to a con and New Orleans or something and, and have I'd love that. Some of these. That would be the dream. Yeah,
09:47
that's the dream right there.
Sara 09:49
Charles, what are you drinking?
09:51
Right. So you know, I this was something that I've been preparing for. Like we said earlier this recording has been on the books for a while and I know you guys always do that. What are you drinking at the beginning? So I did some research and I think I found the right drink. So there's a website called lemon baby. Don't ask me how I found it Google search. And they had a witcher themed cocktail called the White Wolf that has Earl Grey tea in it as well. So I was like, What's your tea cocktails? I'm combining all of it today. It's got rye, whiskey vermouth, Earl Grey and then bitters and orange. Cherry. So it's interesting. It's interesting. Yes, nice young show it off to the chat here. But it's good. You know, I like it. It's I've never had it before. But I'm excited that I got to combine all these different things into the show today. So I'm very excited.
Sara 10:46
Would you would you make it again?
10:49
Um, you know, the next time I'm online, oh, which your theme? Other tea enthusiast, I would highly recommend it. But yeah, it's basically like an old fashioned plus tea and vermouth.
Lilly 11:04
It's also just the iconic friends talking fantasy fiction fans. Over drink. This is the only time that it's appropriate. Exactly.
11:13
So I highly recommend and after retiring afterward, yeah, exactly. If you're gonna do a fiction fans collab, I highly recommend pairing really well right now.
Lilly 11:25
And Lily, I am drinking a Chardonnay from the Columbia Valley. And it counts as local if it's within state,
Sara 11:32
right. 100 councils local.
Lilly 11:35
But I had to go white wine because it is too hot. To drink something not cold.
Sara 11:40
Also, I just want to point out that it's not from a box
Lilly 11:45
through a whole bottle. It's everything.
Sara 11:49
Breaking out the fancy stuff for friends talking fantasy
11:53
guests on? Yeah, sounds like you guys are moving Highlife over there.
Lilly 11:57
No, we just, we just respect you. That's all.
12:02
We'll take give all the respect to Charles, please. Yeah, definitely don't
Lilly 12:10
I'm Sara yourself.
Sara 12:11
I have gone back to my good old standard of blind with cider. I have mentioned them on the podcast before but their local cidery and the people who who run it are lovely. And I love them a lot. And everyone should go and buy their cider.
12:24
Nice. Yeah,
12:25
I've only had like some generic. Like a brand ciders. Yeah, sorry, orchard. Yeah, yep. I've had, which is good. But I feel like you need to kind of take me under your wing a little bit. Sarah and you get me into the world of cider some more? Yeah.
Sara 12:40
Angry MBR changes. Okay. It's a little too sweet for me. Yeah. I know, Benjamin, that's at literature and Lo Fi. He works for a cidery for a cider company over in the UK. He can probably give you some good advice, too.
12:54
Oh, so between the two of you. I'm more well connected than I thought.
13:00
You're entrenched in the slider community.
13:04
I didn't realize how good my network was.
Sara 13:06
will turn you into one of us.
Lilly 13:10
Absolutely. Now, Sarah, you gave us a little teaser with the fact that you've been reading we'll have time but I also saw your flurry of texts while you were reading it. So.
Sara 13:25
So I do have a little bit of a Wheel of Time check in for us today. I'm not going to do anything super spoilery. Because Dylan, I know that you haven't read the entire series yet. No, I'm a little ahead of you. Appreciate it, sir.
13:37
Of course.
Sara 13:38
This is not like when you're listening. And you can just skip ahead.
13:41
Yeah, it really can't you just tell me what time just because I had to in the future. I thought that Tom
13:47
just walked out of the room for a second
Sara 13:54
Yeah, Lily. Anyway, so we'll have time. I'm not gonna name names, but person A and person B, saw each other and fell madly in love because they're both beautiful people. And heaven forbid that single people in an epic fantasy, like series stay single. And I'm just I'm mad.
14:15
Every book of Wheel of Time that person a person will fall madly.
Sara 14:21
At least at least there's because it because it happens earlier in the series. There's a little more time for the relationship to develop. And for like, these are these are both I don't want to call them minor characters, but they're not like major characters. And it was just so out of left field. It was so random. And I yeah, get frustrated.
14:44
I hear yes. Yeah, I've said on our podcast, you know made similar noises about this. So just like you know, I like to say Robert Jordan has a lot of talents when it comes to character writing and relations. You're probably burn romance is not? Yeah, Charles says this. Yeah, Charles, you said that thing about how he's like got the right people together. But he doesn't know how to get them, actually to there. So he just had sort of thing.
15:20
Yeah, he's a great planner, great world builder. He puts the right people together. But sometimes, you know, it's an older book. We love it, warts and all. But I see exactly what you're saying, Sarah, I think I know what people are talking about. Oh, it's been a while since I've booked for. But I agree.
Sara 15:38
Yeah. Just let single people be single. I mean, to be fair, we'll have time is not the only series where I have this issue. But since that's what I was reading, that's what I'm complaining about.
15:54
It is an issue in the I mean, in the fantasy genre that like Everon storyline has to end with them pairing off and a lot. I think some of the newer stuff I'm seeing is moving away from that. But yeah, it's it's pretty rampant. I feel like especially in older stuff, like from the 90s. Like, we'll have time, although you're probably in the Yeah. Yeah, in the brand science and stuff. Yeah. I'm glad you have it in front of you. So you can check the date. It's because I was like, I'm gonna put her on the spot. Do that. Okay.
Sara 16:30
I do. 2010
16:33
Oh, geez.
Sara 16:35
I mean, to be to be fair, to Brandon Sanderson. I don't know if this is something that Robert Jordan specifically said like, I want these two. I intend for these two characters to end up. Which is possible. Yeah. But if it's just Brandon Sanderson being like, No, these are these, these people are gonna fall in love, then. Shame on you.
16:54
Wow.
Lilly 16:58
He could have done it. Well, yeah.
17:05
Word Count, right.
Lilly 17:08
issue was not that characters got together, the issue was that it was, you know, awkward and hamfisted. Standing of your complaint, I have not read books.
Sara 17:19
About that's about 90% of the complaint. I mean, 10% is that I just want people to stay single, more often. Like not everyone has to pair off. But the majority of my complaint comes from the fact that it's just out of the blue. Yeah.
Lilly 17:34
Because I know you can appreciate a good romance storyline.
Sara 17:37
I do. I do sometimes. And I call myself not a romance reader. But I've come to realize that I do actually read a lot more romance than I thought.
17:45
Yeah, I know, you're a big fan of the way crystal writes romance and all that right.
Sara 17:52
Legacy of the bright wash. Yeah, because there's a lot of buildup and a lot of tension. And it's not just these two people see each other and are suddenly madly in love.
18:02
Yeah, that's kind of how I feel about romance. storylines, too, is that idea of like, if it's really badly Donek and like we're in a, we're in a book by can really mess up the experience of reading a book. And if it's then well done, they can really enhance the experience. So yeah, props to Crystal for the for getting them from point A to point B in a way that makes sense.
Lilly 18:36
One of the books that we read for this week was the last wish by Andrzej Sapkowski, which is a collection of short stories in The Witcher saga. Many people are probably familiar with this by the series of video games, or the Netflix series based on this series, which I have now used 10 times in one sentence
18:56
was only like pretty good. Thank you. Hey, everyone. We'll see if you can get to 10 Hey, this is we're drinking now this is like, we don't do this. Yeah, so maybe you can just make that into a drinking game where
Lilly 19:14
every time I repeat a word too many times. Good luck everyone at home. Because now I'm going to get into a brief timeline of this series. Just because I think it's really interesting how this series now I'm doing it on purpose. It did start as short stories, and then was compiled into collections and then has a series of novels, but its first adaptation was actually into a series of video games. Which I I would not consider myself a huge video game aficionado. But there are definitely people who consider the Witcher one of the best video games of all time, which is Just think is important to include in the conversation because this is a story that has been extremely influential in many different media. The first short story was published in a literary magazine in 1986. The translation into English was done in 2007, which was also when the first Witcher video game came out. The third game came out in 2015, which is the one that I'm playing and is, as far as I understand, considered, probably is one of the better ones, the best one, maybe. And then, of course, Netflix did their adaptation, their first season of their series in 2019. So we have a couple of decades of this story just sort of growing and expanding and yeah, kind of getting picked at different parts of the timeline into different storytelling mediums. And it's just you don't see that journey in a lot of different places, huh?
21:00
Yeah, that's well said. It's definitely for some reason that's like multimedia phenomena that's also been like this slow burn that's rapidly more and more ingraining itself in popular culture. I want to say the video game company that made it CD Projekt RED is Polish. So that may be the connection that oh, yeah, I believe that their polish and then when those games got popular, some publisher was like, We got to translate these because they'll every everyone in America isn't playing this game. So yeah. And then from there, it's like, can we get Superman to play the Witcher? Right? Here we are.
Lilly 21:40
I love how the video games or I should say the third one, which I am playing. I think all three of them are like far in the future from the from the short stories in the books, which kind of gives them a really cool way of being able to play in the world but then do their own stories entirely.
21:59
Right? I believe Witcher three is also far ahead of The Witcher saga as well. There's like a series of books. That's like one long story and I believe it takes place after all that as well. So you can jump into it and not feel like anything's getting reimagined or spoiled for you or anything like that.
Lilly 22:20
I think we've mentioned this when I first started playing it, but the Gwent cards in the video game, have a lot of really fun Easter eggs that if you're familiar with the world, add charm. But if you're not, it's just a blurb on a card, it doesn't matter.
22:35
Yeah, and also just like the different characters you might run into, or different just like mentions of a short story that may have been in last wish or things like that. There are these Easter egg things that somehow we got world building past the books into RPG video games. So you're like, Oh, I remember from the book from the video game to the show that it's kind of fun. It's kind of fun.
Lilly 22:57
But then the show goes back and is a much more close adaptation of Well, the last wish specifically. And Charles, you've read more? Have you read more of them, Dylan? Or is that I've,
23:08
I've we both read the Sword of Destiny?
23:11
Oh, yeah. Yep. And we watch the TV show. I've never played the video games.
Lilly 23:16
So our question. Ours being Sarah in mind, when we were talking about this was how much of the show is pulled from later books. Because I would say there were like two or three short stories that are very closely adapted to the show.
23:34
There are some episodes of season one that are because the second book sort of Destiny is a similar style of like a bunch of short story anthology kind of things. So there are some of those short stories that appear in season one of of The Witcher show there's one with a dragon, for example. And that is like the first story and sort of destiny i believe so yeah, they kind of cherry picked they kind of cherry.
Lilly 24:00
One of my big comments is I really loved the characters in the show. And I don't think they all shined quite as brightly in the short stories. But that could have just been because they didn't get as much screen time. So I don't know, screen page time.
Sara 24:17
I also think that it suffered a little bit from the translation. Like I to be perfectly honest, I wasn't a huge fan of the translator. It felt a little bit clunky. And it felt like I was reading a translation. Not that I was reading something that had been written like natively in English. Yeah, it's not that you couldn't read it and enjoy it. It's just that I didn't notice it.
24:41
Yeah, I hear you, sir. I had I had something of a similar reaction of like, being aware at points in which as you're eating like, Yeah, this is probably something from the translation, and just phrasing stuff, but yeah, and I think comparing the show and the Uh, the short stories, I do agree with you Lily like kind of more nuanced and fleshed out characters in the show in a lot of ways. Like they went for more of this like morally gray just like aesthetic. And like you could tell Game of Thrones seemed to be something of an influence for the way that they went about it. And then, yeah, something about the short stories I like is that that is almost kind of like missing from the show is this almost like zaniness and this charm to it? That there seems to be this kind of Yeah, like something silly about a lot of it. That is just not in the show. Because the show really double down on the gritty dark elements of it. Yeah,
Lilly 25:45
the show was definitely darker. I maybe because I watched it before I read it that didn't like have I didn't have any problem with that when I was watching the show. But I could definitely see how if you were going into it expecting that tone, it would be like, Wait, hold on. Hold on a second.
26:02
I kind of see it. I also think that the Netflix show made the conscious decision to have not just Geralt of Rivia via main character, they wanted Siri to be a main character. And they wanted Yennefer to be a main character. So they're trying to tell all their stories from the beginning and follow them throughout the whole season. Which if you follow the story of the last wish, like you have to get like to the end of the book before we meet Yennefer and serie isn't even mentioned, we're building up to Siri. So it's like, okay, well, if you want it to have both of them knowing that they're famous characters from the games, and further books and things like that, we have to tell the story from the beginning. And that's why the show I still like, jump around in time, so much where the books just kind of start at the beginning and focus on Geralt until girl's story the whole way to bring in these other characters. So it's a different way of telling it. And I'm actually okay with the Netflix version.
Lilly 26:56
I actually disagree with you there a little bit. I think the Well, I agree that I've I quite prefer the Netflix version. But two of the things that I thought that it actually had in common with the short stories was how it jumped around in time, because the sort of conceit for this collection is that Geralt is recovering in a temple. And he is telling these stories to Iola, one of the priestesses there. And so we're still getting that kind of time jump on a much smaller scale, perhaps that's fair. But like, it's that actually that struck me as a similarity. When I first started reading.
27:32
The stories are told, I believe, chronologically, but you're I heard the frame story takes place after pretty much all of them. So it's true. I think
Lilly 27:43
someone called him the Butcher of black akin really early. And then we see that happen. Right, right.
27:49
Okay. Yeah.
27:50
So I think you're not quite Yeah. In the frame story. They call him the butcher block. And like, really? Yeah. within it. Yes. But you do get that kind of sensation of jumping through time, like you're talking about? Well, a Yeah.
Lilly 28:05
They also named Rob Yennefer. Right. Yeah, getting but you don't find out is like Charles was saying until right. Yeah. Right. I also, from watching the show loved Jennifer so much.
28:16
So it was such a dish.
Lilly 28:19
Yeah. And calamity. I was a little disappointed with that. I had not enough that it turns me off of the book. But I was like, Oh, I can see how this character grew into the woman that I loved. And the show. The female characters
Sara 28:35
in general in the show are a little bit stronger. Because it is more. I mean, it was it was written for modern sensibilities. And this book was written in 1986. I think you said the first story, the first story. Okay, so that so this particular collection was published in 1993. Yeah, yeah. And it does suffer a little bit from being written in the 90s.
29:01
Yeah, well, you're
Lilly 29:03
taking on sort of a fairy tale aspect, which is the only way to ignore the fact that 14 year olds are marrying 30 Something year olds.
29:13
Yeah, still kind of hard to ignore sometimes. I don't know. I mean, I I think I talked about this on our episode of some Charles I know I didn't deep dive into it. But yeah, just some things that didn't age well that that Charles Charles and I always try on the podcast to view things in their context you know, we're just like well, we'll dive and all this kind of stuff. Yeah, did not age well and do a read as being sexist. I think now, but I don't want to throw those terms around. Like at authors or anything like that is a different time. So
Lilly 29:52
yeah. I feel like this book walks through the line pretty well. I would say the the worst examples of All of it were from characters that I wasn't necessarily supposed to like. Which makes it much easier to swallow. You know? Yes, stray Gabor is summoning visions of a person is only described as a naked girl, which is very vague in a troubling way. Right? He's also not a good guy. So maybe that's just supposed to say something about him.
Sara 30:25
Even even the, the, I don't want to say the good guys, but like some of the monsters that we're supposed to root for in the end, they also have pretty misogynistic views. But not as
Lilly 30:37
bad. I will say the worst parts were from bad guys.
Sara 30:41
But it does, it does permeate all of the characters views. It's not just the bad guys,
30:48
I would say there's like, you know, little instances scattered throughout where I was like, oh, yeah, I don't know if this would fly today. But I also, you know, to shake up the perspective here, what I see is a series that was written in the 80s. And in the published in the early 90s, that was maybe actively trying to change some things, you know, I do think like Geralt himself has is a, you know, pretty open minded guy. And like Lily was saying some of the situations within which there were some of the worst cases, these characters either weren't meant to be liked, or weren't particularly likeable, or that kind of stuff wasn't portrayed in the most positive way. It was just something that was happening. So in those cases, I like to give it some slack, although I do recognize it as not being perfect by any means. And certainly, like just reading descriptions of Yennefer. And the words like, why are they both taking a bath together now that they've just match and she couldn't make another room somewhere?
Sara 31:50
Actually, I think because I had the context of the show, like I watched the show first. And so I had seen the relationship develop. So I was like, okay, these two people can fall madly in love. That's fine. There is development there, whatever.
32:01
Yeah, I mean, bad scenes in The Witcher, I just pass
Lilly 32:07
it. Okay, so I was watching the show. And Danny, my husband, who has played the games, was watching it with me. And I tried to make a funny joke. Like, oh, they're trying to make the most out of hiring Superman for this, you know, they're doing this gratuitous bad scene. And he just turns to me and says, This is what the Witcher is
32:34
like that was a shot for shot recreations of a witcher three moment that very famous
Lilly 32:39
game opens on Geralt in a bathtub.
32:43
The same like spread eagle feet up on the rim of the back with his face in between.
Lilly 32:48
Wild it's a very rare thing to be famous
32:51
for. Oh, yeah, definitely. But it's equal
Lilly 32:55
opportunity. Horny, which we love on this.
Sara 32:59
Do you love on this podcast?
Lilly 33:01
We were talking for a hot second about translations. And then we got a little bit away from us. But I do want it to laugh about dandelion. Yeah. Who is Gehrels Bard? The BFF. Yeah, except his name is your skier, which they kept in the show. Another thing that the show got, right.
33:22
And yeah, yeah, it's pretty incredible.
Lilly 33:25
It's wild that the the true translation of your skier is Buttercup. But then they decided that was too girly. So named him dandelion, in,
Sara 33:34
in the game. I also like how in this book, they actually misspelled dandelion the entire time, like, they have an eye instead of an E. And I believe that, that changes in the rest of the series.
33:48
So here's what's interesting, and I if you if anyone, probably you audio book fans out there listening to this, you'll listen to the last wish. It's the same Narrator Peter Kenny throughout all of them, but in the first one, he says Dan Dillion and then he in books too, and on he goes to dandelion, so it's just a total mess. Like, it's like, I'm not calling this character Buttercup. And I guess we'll call him dandelion, but maybe we should change it a little bit. Now, let's not change it a little bit. Let's bring it back. So you know, it's like, it's like, whatever. People are only playing the video games anyway, like, that's kind of how it felt when they were treating it. But yeah, it was Dan Daly in the audio book for this one, but then it's just like, oh, dandelion, we said dandelion the whole time when you're talking about from like, Book Two, all the way through this, like, boom, or something like that, but yeah, it's it's pretty funny. Yeah, I
Lilly 34:36
didn't know that. I kind of love Dan Dillion. Actually.
34:40
It's not a bad name.
34:41
It's kind of cool. Yeah. Suits. It
34:43
suits his personality. Yeah,
Sara 34:45
I mean, that's definitely how I pronounced it when I like saw it. Initially. I only pronounced a dandelion because I knew like I had heard that it was supposed to be dandelion. Yeah. But I liked dandelion,
34:56
too. That's what Peter Kenny says anyway, then. Then deadly?
Sara 35:00
Yes, that's my new headcanon. For him. His name is Dan Jillian's
35:04
nice.
Lilly 35:06
I also loved how they lifted some dialogue, almost word for word from the book into the show, but in slightly different contexts, but the lines were almost identical. So that was really fun to run into the line, or the conversation about lesser evil. Well, that one, I think was,
35:24
yeah, the Lesser Evils, one of our favorites. And there was more, but
Lilly 35:27
I didn't write it all down.
Sara 35:28
I don't actually remember the show well enough to have
35:32
picked up on that. It was the first episode was
Sara 35:35
yeah, my memory doesn't go back that far. I was like, December or something. It was a long time ago.
35:41
Right? There's this whole thing about like, you know, when it comes to choosing between two evils, I prefer not to choose at all or something. And it's like identical to the English translation as well as the show. So yeah.
Sara 35:55
When Lily and I were writing our show notes, we realized that the blurbs on the back of our two copies were different. I don't know if you guys have your copy of the last wish handy. But I just thought that it would be interesting to discuss, like how different they are, because it was kind of funny, actually, in my opinion. Anyway,
Lilly 36:15
they're also both very wrong, except for one thing, and those one things are different.
36:21
Mine was the same one that you have there, Sarah, that I can see on the Zoom call. So yeah, I'll let myself off the hook here for not having my
36:29
I audiobook that I didn't. There was no getting involved.
Lilly 36:34
So first of all, Sara, I don't think we should read this word for word, but probably not. Hers starts with Andrzej Sapkowski. is an award winning blah, blah, blah, like all of his,
Sara 36:47
yeah, it's a bio of him. So hers is at the
Lilly 36:51
like, front and center at the top. And mine is at the very end and small font. So that's interesting. Just philosophically, I think the only thing they truly have in like, word for word, not all monsters are evil. And not everything fair is good. See, the
Sara 37:07
only the only thing that they have is the evil and not everything fair is good, because mine says but not everything monstrous looking. It's not like a monster.
Lilly 37:16
Wow. Pig by might be a little better there. I don't know. The back of mine also says one man holds the line against the demons that plague humanity. There's a whole guilt of Witchers.
37:28
Yeah, that's not
Lilly 37:34
what this is about?
37:36
Someone wants to write that book. Great. But that's not this one.
Lilly 37:39
It's just extremely misleading, right? Like that's not at all this book.
37:43
Yeah, not at all. It's not about holding back monsters for the sake of humanity. If anything, it's the opposite.
Lilly 37:51
I loved that about this. I would say that was absolutely my favorite part of this collection of short stories was the exploration of what is a monster? And the difference between monsters and evil? And that whole sort of conversation?
38:08
Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, this idea of what makes a monster and then I also like to say the witches about, you know, girl fighting monsters and the people that make them because you like this, these stories. And I think what inspired this RPG style video game is, the decision is not always clear. For girls. He's a monster hunter. But the more he investigates the more he realizes what other nefarious deeds are going on around the same time, and he has to choose what side he's gonna take. And yeah, he always tries to do what's right by his own his own code. And that's not always very clear. So that's what makes his book so great.
Sara 38:46
It's a really nice reframing of the traditional fairytale story where you get a little bit more nuance to it. It's not just that it's black and white. But like, as you said, you know, they're, the monsters aren't aren't always evil.
38:59
Yeah. And he grapples with that sort of monstrous identity himself, too, which is interesting. And that's something that doesn't translate as well to the show when it's like Henry Cavill, walking around, and it's like, it's like, everyone's scared of me. When I walk into a room. It's like, like, Henry Caveau, if you got some mud in his hair, or whatever, but in the book, he's described more monstrous and in a way that if he walks into a tavern or whatever, people look at him like he, he's a monster himself. And he's obviously a Witcher and that comes with its own, like biases that people project onto him. And I feel like yeah, the book does a really good job of exploring his identity struggles with like, I'm a monster hunter. But am I a monster and then this bit that all All we're talking about with are the people out there who are hiring me to kill these quote unquote monsters, the real monsters and things like that and the other folks he runs into along the way. It's like that what makes a monster concept is so freakin cool to watch. Explore in so many ways throughout these different forms of media.
Lilly 40:22
And I answered the question a little bit. Well, we answered the question a little bit before I asked it, but that's why you should read this book. Yeah, I would say, yeah. Read it for the conversation on monsters and identity and fun fairy tale retellings?
40:40
Yeah. Definitely, yeah. Second that
40:44
there's some great creatures in here. There's great action pieces. It's a little bit introspective as well. It's kind of this like Gothic McCobb kind of vibe and certain stories as well, which I really liked to.
Lilly 40:57
I definitely glazed over a little bit in some of the action scenes. I was like, this is another page. All right. I'll say that's a me problem.
41:07
So when I was first recommended to read The Witcher or even just to watch a show, I actually had this idea in my head that The Witcher because it was a video game and things like that was just like Basham kill the monster type thing. And that's not really my stick as much as these more like psychological and philosophical questions that are actually explored. So I will say it took me longer to get into the Witcher than then maybe I could have especially because I really enjoy it. So it's like, if there are any folks out there who were like me before I picked it up who were like, is this going to be exploring things are actually gonna be interesting to me or is it just gonna be a bunch of monsters slaying? And that's it, then? Yeah, I do find it's it's really interesting morality. And like you said Lilly identity. And you said something else that I'm blanking on. By the way, that was really smart. Me too. But I'm
Lilly 42:07
sure to avoid spoilers for The Witcher, skip to 103 10. One of the short stories that is almost directly adapted is the story of King full test and his daughter who is cursed to be a monster, whom Geralt saves in both the story and the TV show. The TV show does it in a much more interesting way. I thought, not that the plot points change at all. But in the story Geralt just runs into people who tells him what's going on?