The Prologue

Episode 1

Release Date: 2/3/2021

Learn about your hosts' reading tastes and habits in this inaugural episode of Fiction Fans. Other topics include: our podcast good omens, the risks of reading an unfinished work, and "JUST the first Wheel of Time Book: Is it worth it?"

Some books mentioned: "The Eye of the World," the first book in the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan; "Dataclysm" by Christian Rudder; "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien" by J.R.R. Tolkien; "Song of Blood and Stone" by L. Penelope; "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.

Music provided by Audio Library Plus; "Travel With Us" by Vendredi & "Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris" by Amarià

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

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Episode Transcript*

*this transcript is AI generated, please excuse the mess.

Lilly 00:03

fiction fans, we read books and other words to Hello, and welcome to the very first episode of fiction fans. I'm Lily.

Sara 00:18

I am Sarah.

Lilly 00:21

Well, Sara, I have a question for you. What are you currently reading?

Sara 00:27

I am reading the letters of JRR Tolkien well, actually no. So, I mean, yes, I am reading that. But I'm also in the midst of reading for the first time, the Wheel of Time series, and I finished book, nine, winter's hearts on Saturday. And I did not actually have 10 in my possession at the time, which was a mistake. So that's why I'm taking a break to read the letters talking. It's very good. He says girl a lot. And I'm obsessed.

Lilly 01:05

I was gonna say that sounds like a great comment and will have times favor that you even care that you don't have the next book in the series. Like, yeah,

Sara 01:17

things are heating up. I mean, I know we're gonna we're gonna discuss this later on in the podcast, but I am a fan of the series. Its commitments, both in terms of time, and then shelf space, if you want to own it, but I think it's worth it. In general,

Lilly 01:36

let's shelve that conversation for a little bit. I my book, I have to go look at the title and I listed across the room. So hold on beer back. I am currently reading song of blood and stone by L. Penelope. I actually started. How have you heard of it? It's so good. Sorry,

Sara 01:56

that I have Yeah.

Lilly 02:00

Holy shit, it's so good. I'm so excited to get back into it. Some books that have multiple, you know, main characters and multiple perspectives. I feel like you end up just kind of wading through some of them. Like I want to get back to the one I care about. And not at all the case with this book, which is not something I have ever actually experienced a book before. So anyway, I'm enjoying it immensely. And I can't

Sara 02:28

sounds good. I'll need to pick it up. At some point. It's been on my to read list, but my to read list is like 20 boxes of books long. So the next

Lilly 02:39

question that we have on our getting to know you list is what is your beverage of choice while reading, which I would like to edit briefly for What are you drinking right now.

Sara 02:52

So right now I'm drinking a red wine. And I had a lot of trouble opening the bottle of this wine, probably more trouble than the wine was actually worth.

Lilly 03:01

Well, I have extolled the virtues of Boxed Wine to you plenty of times, I won't make you sit through it again. But this evening, I actually went all out and I am drinking a gin and tonic.

Sara 03:13

And moving on to our next question in this book chat getting to know you. Are there any books or series that you just couldn't get into?

Lilly 03:27

So I my, my gut reaction, my very first answer for this was Game of Thrones. And then I realized that I've read all of the published books, so maybe that doesn't count.

Sara 03:38

Were you reading them? Because you enjoyed them? Or were you reading them? I make a difference.

Lilly 03:46

Does it make a difference? I didn't enjoy. Spoilers, Ned Stark does. And I don't think I enjoyed a single moment after that, because he was the only part of those books that had any value to me as a reader. Didn't like characters didn't like the prose like, none of it, none of it. But I was it was just, it was really big at that was really big at the time. And I was borrowing them from a friend who was super into it. And we could talk about it and I had an outlet for how much I was annoyed by it. But can you really say you didn't get into a series if you've read all of them? I don't know. So my my follow up answer to that was is the magicians because I enjoyed the first book but have no intention of reading more, but about you fair enough.

Sara 04:45

So I have sort of two answers to this. The first is that when I was a child I really wanted to read Dark Is Rising series by Susan Cooper which is I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but it's a relatively well known children's book that's based sort of off of Welsh mythology and English mythology and that sort of thing. And I just could not get into it whatsoever. Like, I think I tried multiple times, and I just, I could not read it. And then I saw it on my shelf last year, and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna give it I'm much older now. I'm gonna give it another shot. So I started reading it. And I actually really enjoyed the series. And I did discover that the first was familiar enough that I think I probably did read the first book in its entirety, but not the other four. When I was a kid, that is so yes.

Lilly 05:47

Is it a young adult? Like, is it a young adult series? Or were you just reading it when you were a kid?

Sara 05:53

Oh, it's a young adult series? Like I would say that probably is like, yeah, no, I that's probably like, you could read it starting at like 11. Or though and enjoy it. Or you could get younger if your parent is reading it, too. Like it's definitely a children's series are young adult series. So that's answer number one. And answer number two is Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson, which I may get a lot of flack for, because I think it's supposed to be a really good series.

Lilly 06:26

So I will probably get even more flack for this than you. But doesn't, doesn't he have something to do with Wheel of Time? I know he didn't. He didn't start it, of course. But I'm under the impression it was finished by someone else.

Sara 06:41

Yeah. So Brandon Sanderson finished the series, he wrote books 1213 and 14, I believe when Robert Jordan passed away, he like Jordan beat left copious amounts of notes, I am given to understand that he used to finish it, but he did finish the series, which makes it possibly a little ironic that I could not get into my sport, whatsoever to say,

Lilly 07:04

Yeah, you're enjoying the time that you have that to look forward to? Is that scary?

Sara 07:09

No, I mean, like, I enjoyed the first book of Mistborn, when I read it, like I read it, when it came out, and I enjoyed it. And then I got booked to to read when Book Two came out. But at that point, I had forgotten entirely what was going on. So I want to go back and read book one, before I started book two. So I, like knew what was happening. And I just could not finish it. Like I got halfway through and I just could not finish whatsoever. So maybe at some point, I'll go back to it and get another go. Because I have heard good things about it. And it's supposed to be like it's supposed to be a really good series. But that that is the current series that I just could not get into.

Lilly 07:55

Well, speaking of things that we simply can't get into. Our next question is a fanfiction trope that you avoid. Do we have to define fanfiction? That's probably ubiquitous enough that most people know that fanfiction is a written fan work based off of the story written by someone else? Either literature or TV or movie or whatever? Did I cover it? That's fanfiction.

Sara 08:24

Yeah, I think that just about covers it. A trope that shows up in fan fiction that I dislike probably a male pregnancy and gender bending like, not that there's anything wrong with those two tropes. They're just my cup of tea. So if they show up in a flick that I'm reading, I will usually stop reading, which is easy. I know how to use the back button. And I just go back and find another fanfiction and move on with my life. Oh,

Lilly 08:57

it's even easier because it'll just most of the time be tagged and you don't even have to be surprised. I the tagging system exactly, is pretty extraordinary. The the trope that i i would say it's not an automatic backspace for me when it shows up. There like there has been a few pieces that I've read that I enjoyed, but for the most part, anything about soulmates is just just not interesting. It's not a concept that interest. It's not a like, like I said, if someone twists it in a certain way, or takes it somewhere else, it can be fun to read. But for the most part is just not something that I'm interested in

Sara 09:50

interesting because that's that's a trope that I enjoy. I mean, not that I go out of my way to read it. Yeah, but I do enjoy the soulmate trope. Look at the many and varied ways in which it can be written. That's

Lilly 10:08

that's also why we're doing this right because we disagree if we just if we agreed on everything that would be boring as hell

Sara 10:16

that would not make for an interesting podcasts that would make for like you say a very boring podcast.

Lilly 10:21

Is this boring and soulmate fanfiction? Oh, I said it. Rude. Rude.

Sara 10:32

I would throw pillow at you if we were in the same room. Oh, that's actually

Lilly 10:36

that's the real reason why we're recording this far away. No, the pandemic, who cares that we live in different states?

Sara 10:45

It's just so I can't toss things at you when you're being rude.

Lilly 10:49

Exactly. I know me.

Sara 10:53

You lucked out this time. Okay, if you could have dinner with any author living or dead? Who would it be?

Lilly 11:02

Okay. I feel like the obvious answer is Tolkien. But hear me out a dinner party with the Fitzgeralds would be so dramatic. I think that would be such a night. I can't like Oh, man.

Sara 11:21

That would definitely be an interesting occasion. That that's another very different

Lilly 11:25

answers, right? What is I would really love to hang out with this person. And the other one is, I would be fascinated to witness this train wreck.

Sara 11:34

Yes. Yes. They are very, two very different things. You're

Lilly 11:39

right. What about you?

Sara 11:41

I'm not sure actually. I don't want to go to Inner West Tolkien. But I would love to attend a lecture by Tolkien. Which is not quite the same thing. I think that if I was going to have dinner with anyone, right now, the author that I'd like to have dinner with would be fifth Stark, who sounds like a fanfiction love child of Loki and Tony Stark is true. But she was she was a real person. She was a diplomat and a travel writer, and sort of semi professional archaeologists and just all around a really interesting character. And I read a book of her letters, which were witty and and fun and well written and I think she would be a great person to just have a chat with.

Lilly 12:44

I was excited to hear about her just when we were texting and you didn't even share half of that cool stuff. So now I'm excited.

Sara 12:54

Yes, I have to save some of the good stuff for the podcast.

Lilly 12:58

You'll have to tell and our scores of listeners all about her very soon because we've them

Sara 13:06

we will we will definitely be having a section on Freya Stark because Freya Stark is amazing. I will prepare some quotes from her letters. By that, I mean I will go back into my tweets because when I was reading that book, I was tweeting a lot. Really cool sound bites from her letters. So yes, we will have a section on her because she deserves the section.

Lilly 13:28

Excellent. That made us sound very serious.

Sara 13:32

But to bring it back more what we are.

Lilly 13:36

Exactly if your pets wrote a book, what genre would it be?

Sara 13:43

So the pugs Mr. Squeak who is girl despite name because Miss squeak just did not sound as good. And she was definitely a Mr. Squeak. Like, in her behavior in her in her looks. She has Mr. Squeak all the way. So I have Mr. Squeak and I have Snorri who is my other pug and Mr. Squeak would definitely write murder mysteries. Allah Agatha Christie, I think that she would she would be a very popular murder mystery author. And I would be somewhat worried living with her. I'm already somewhat worried living with her Snorri I think would write some sort of really like area diets. Well thought out deep poetry. Who

Lilly 14:35

I liked that answer. I did. Miss phrase the question. You're right. If they're if they were an offer, what would they write not what genre would their novel be? I think so out of my two cats. The answer that came to me immediately was Sif, my little Tabby would definitely write adventure novels for young girls. By Uh, you know ya that warrior princess vibe? I we like to say that I pushed for naming her Xena when she was a little baby. And I think that that that spirit lives on.

Sara 15:14

Yes, I can see that I posed this question

Lilly 15:17

to Dan, my husband for Bard, our big black and white fluffy cat. And with no hesitation he said oh he would write recipes bar the dreaded cookbook

Sara 15:36

with Barbie a very popular recipe blogger

Lilly 15:40

on the internet will know because every ingredient would be gravy you still a cat after all?

Sara 15:52

He would have a very niche audience. But it was popular within his niche audience. What is in your to be read pile?

Lilly 16:04

I won't read off all of these as part of my current author crusade. I did. I have a I have a stack of books I bought this summer and have not read yet. So all of them in that stack, but just picking one is a Dragon Sword and wind child by Noriko OGIHARA.

Sara 16:31

In interesting, never heard of it. I

Lilly 16:34

so like I said, I was just looking at lists of current authors that had published fantasy novels recently.

Sara 16:39

And it has a very pretty cover. What's it about?

Lilly 16:42

I should just read you the back. I haven't read it yet. I don't know. Yeah.

Sara 16:48

Well, no, but I want to if we're going to talk about books, you know, we might as well like make it interesting for the audience and hype up at this current living author.

Lilly 16:58

I should say I assume they're still alive. Like I said about this book a couple months ago. The God of light and the goddess of darkness of waste a ruthless war across the land to your ashihara for generations. I wouldn't say butchered that, but I probably did it wrong. But for 15 year old saya the war is far away. Until the day she discovers that she is reincarnation of the water Maiden and a princess of the children of the dark raised to love the light and detest the dark saya must come to terms with her heritage even as she tumbles into the heart of the conflict that is destroying her land. I won't I won't finish reading this entire paragraph. But it seems just like a good ol two side conflicted young girl, like give me that. I'm all over it.

Sara 17:53

Yeah, it sounds like a fun read for sure. I'll be interested to hear what you think about it when you finally read it. Well, I have the final four books of the Wheel of Time series. already? Yes, that is a tall pile already. Those books are lengthy. So once I finish the letters, I will probably move on to book 10 of Wheel of Time. And what I've been doing with some of the Wheel of Time books is taking a break in between to sort of Cleanse the palate and read a Terry Pratchett book because I'm rereading all the the Terry Pratchett books. But lately, the Wheel of Time books have been so interesting, but I haven't wanted to actually stop in between. So we'll see whether I take a break or if I just like plow through the next four books. I haven't decided yet.

Lilly 18:50

Well, I look forward to hearing what you decide to do.

Sara 18:55

Yes, and you will hear about it.

Lilly 18:57

The question is a trick question. Why did you even put it on this list?

Sara 19:03

I thought it would be an interesting question.

Lilly 19:06

Okay. The Lord of the Rings, other than the Lord of the Rings, what is your favorite adaptation?

Sara 19:12

Okay, you can you can edit the question. Yes, you can edit the question.

Lilly 19:17

Because, obviously, Lord of the Rings I love the Baz Lurman adaptation of The Great Gatsby. I have loved most of Bob's lumens movies. And then when I found out that he was doing The Great Gatsby a book that I also love, it was just a match made in heaven. The music choices incredible. The casting on point, like there's nothing about that movie that disappointed me. I just think it it did such a good job of giving the right vibe and telling the story but also staying true to sort of the ambiance of the book

Sara 19:59

seeing us How I have neither read the book nor seen the movie. I cannot comment.

Lilly 20:05

Well, you'll have to take my word for it is good.

Sara 20:08

We'll have to take your word for it. Yes.

Lilly 20:10

Just imagine Beyonce in the 20s.

Sara 20:13

My favorite adaptation, I think, would have to be the recent TV series of good omens. Initially, when they announced the casting, I was kind of dubious. And I didn't think like I knew that Neil Gaiman was involved with the project. But I didn't have high hopes, because I liked the book so much. And adaptations usually fall short. And then I saw it and I was like, this is perfect. It entirely captures the feel of the book, and like the in jokes, and just has all of the scenes and it's just, it's a comfort watch. Like I could watch that over and over and over with no breaks and I would be happy.

Lilly 21:02

He also did such a good job with Star Dust. I think his his sort of foundations in screenwriting really come through when you get an adaptation of one of his works. Yeah. Well start us in particular, I think, your screenplay, so like, of course, he did what he wanted to do. No, he

Sara 21:23

did a lot of I know, he did a lot of the script writing for all of the script writing for good omens as part of the reason why it's so good.

Lilly 21:31

Okay, that makes total sense, then. Yeah.

Sara 21:34

Yes, so checks out. But my, my runner up would be the prince of tennis musicals, because I have a very fond spot in my heart for them. Prince of tennis is a manga about ostensibly middle schoolers, but they really some of them look like adults and get mistaken for adults. So they're, they're basically adults, ostensibly, middle schoolers playing tennis,

Lilly 22:00

which is an honor and a life or death situation, which is apparently a

Sara 22:04

life or death situation. It's not magical tennis, but some of some of the times it seems like it is there is in the ANI may movie, Prince of tennis, or one of them. I think there's two movies. There's a scene where one of like the team captains serves is the media that takes out the dinosaurs, and it's just way over the top anyway, that's not my that's the Automate not the musicals, but the musicals are brilliant and weird. And how in the heck, can you have musicals about high schoolers playing tennis? Why would that be interesting, but it somehow is. So that was my honorable runner up. Honorable Mention slash runner up?

Lilly 22:49

Yeah, I almost want to say weird is always good, which I'm going to immediately backtrack and say of course, it's not always good. But at some point, we're weird is great.

Sara 23:01

We're weird is weird is often good. Just for the sake

Lilly 23:05

of itself. Yeah. What genre or trope Will you always take a chance on?

Sara 23:13

Well, I'm not gonna say soulmates but I'm tempted to just because of your conversation.

Lilly 23:20

Not necessarily fanfiction, though. Just any genre or?

Sara 23:23

Yeah. I mean, I honestly don't know. Because, like, I was trying to think of it. And there's not I wouldn't, I couldn't really pinpoint like, trope that I would go to, or read, like, whenever I found it, so I'm gonna have to pass on this. What about you?

Lilly 23:41

Oh, amnesia, definitely. Any kind of memory loss. I something about that? Is just so fun. I don't know romance, but also not necessarily in romance. I will say the I think it's the fourth Southern Vampire mystery novel, which you may know as True Blood by Charlene Harris. I think it's the fourth one one of those books is the does the amnesia trope and it's a good but also, anytime a memory loss or amnesia comes up like I'll probably enjoy it no matter if it's good or not. Do you have a book that you read? That was a struggle but ended up being worth it?

Sara 24:25

So again, this is partially out of contrarian ism but the magician's I thought it Yes, it was kind of difficult to read the first book, but once you do that, it really picks up and I enjoyed the the other two books immensely, so I would say that it is worth pushing through. Oh, is it? Is it only

Lilly 24:50

three books?

Sara 24:52

It's only three books and they're not even that long.

24:54

All right. Yeah. It's worth it. You

Sara 24:56

can okay. You can do

Lilly 24:59

that. Oh, maybe maybe I'll have to change my answer to series. I'll never finish them. It's just the first book was not good enough for me to read 10 books. Let's just say that

Sara 25:10

fair. Yeah. Fair. Definitely. If If there isn't been 10 books, I probably wouldn't have pushed on either. But it's only three. And it it, it's worth it. I think it's worth it.

Lilly 25:21

Okay. My answer to that question is without a doubt, Cloud Atlas. I started that book. No, like, no joke, no exaggeration. I started it at least four times, hit about 50 pages in and just could not do it. I just couldn't do it. I don't know what it was. It just did not. I couldn't get into it. But then I kept trying. I kept trying. Everything I read said that this is a good book. And I was like copy reading the same book. I eventually, though, I eventually got past 50 pages, and then burned through the rest of it. It was great. It was fantastic. I loved it. But I still you have to you have to trust that it's going somewhere.

Sara 26:11

Yeah, I have never had to read it. I think I watched the movie. And all I can remember is that, Ben why Shaw is in it. And I liked and why shot but I don't think I particularly cared for the movie.

Lilly 26:23

I haven't seen the movie. I mean, I would like to. But that's just haven't haven't yet. You know, you know how it goes?

Sara 26:32

Yeah, I know how it goes. I mean, I don't think I disliked the movie. I think it was just it was just take it or leave it. Fair enough.

Lilly 26:39

If it was anything like the first 50 pages of the book, I don't blame you.

Sara 26:44

Yeah, well, that I can't speak to but eventually, at some point, you'll have to watch the movie and then tell us how it compares.

Lilly 26:54

So for these next two, I only have an answer for one. And it looks like you only have an answer for the other social, we just announced them. Sure. My favorite nonfiction book is data, classism, which was written by the one of the founders of OkCupid. And it's a an exploration of the data from online dating. And it's so good. It's fascinating. Oh my god.

Sara 27:30

Oh, that sounds really interesting. Oh, you gotta go out and find myself a copy of that. It's,

Lilly 27:37

it's phenomenal. He does a really good job. I don't remember the author's name right now. But he does a really good job of explaining sort of the parameters of what he was looking at. And so it feels very, like, if you if you've taken any statistics classes, it it all checks out, I'm not going to say I'm a statistician, but the little bit that I know, it all checks out. And there's some really fascinating graphs. And he talks about the shortcomings, like this is what the data looks like. But here's this big caveat. And so who knows what it could actually be, or whatever. And this on a on a more personal note, I did meet Dan, during the time that this data, the data is taken from about a decade, if I remember correctly, so it's a huge chunk of information aggregated together. And so like I'm, it's technically I'm in there. So that's kind of fun. My own my own OKCupid dating as part of this, this book. And so that just makes it a little bit a little bit special to me, but it's also a great book without that. So

Sara 28:45

my favorite poem would probably have to be Ozymandias by Percy Bysshe. Shelley, partially because when I was in seventh and eighth grade, I had the same English teacher for both years. And she made us memorize a poem a week. And then we have in front of the class and recite it. And I hate it as a seventh and eighth grader. And I can appreciate it a little more now. But the only poem that I actually remember from that time, is Ozymandias. And there's also a family connection because our grandfather wrote extensively or researched extensively on Ozymandias. And he taught English and, and so I went home and said, Oh, I'm learning Ozymandias by Percy Bysshe. Shelley and my father was like, oh, Granddad would know all about that. So that's partially why I'm so fond of the book, not book poem.

Lilly 29:41

It is nice to have that connection. It just gives that extra little warm and fuzzy feeling.

Sara 29:46

Exactly, exactly.

Lilly 29:54

So Sarah, earlier we were talking and you mentioned a good omen. For the beginning of our podcast now, this is a little bit outdated at this point. However, it was very timely at the moment. And so I think it still deserves to be addressed.

Sara 30:11

Yes, yes. So the good the good omen, and I call it a good omen, simply because I mean, besides the fact that it is a good omen, but that is also like good omens, which is why it's not a great omen. It's just a good omen. So we had our first, this is first, obviously, our first official podcast, but we had a recording session, a brainstorming session last Wednesday, to sort of discuss what we were planning to do with the podcast. And that was our first official meeting. For the podcast. There is a fanfiction that I started reading probably back in Oh, 2009 ish or so really, really good. Long plati. The characters are well developed and do interesting things and have interesting relationships. And I'm discovering that I use the word interesting, a lot. Yes,

Lilly 31:08

well, I would hope it's plati if it's been going on for that long,

Sara 31:13

but I've definitely read fic where it's been going on for a long time. Like there's this one fic that's like 90 chapters long, but it's a mediocre film, the plot sort of went off the rails a long time ago. So this is in contrast to that kind of story. Right? And I

Lilly 31:28

will clarify, fit is short for fan fiction. We are we are speaking of a fan

Sara 31:34

sick. We are speaking of a fan work right now. So this is a Harry Potter fan fiction called Prince of the dark Kingdom. The author is Museveni Osama, I believe. And the premise of the story is that instead of being defeated when Harry is a year old, Voldemort wins. And so Harry in this story still goes up with his uncle until he's 11. But then he comes into this world that's controlled by Voldemort and drastically different from the world that we know in the the official Harry Potter books, I would say that it's one of the best stories of this with this premise. Like I said, the the characters are very well developed. And even if you don't always like them, their motivations, like you can see why they make the decisions they make. That just makes it

Lilly 32:32

good and well written. It's okay to just I know, I

Sara 32:37

know. Yeah, it's okay. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? I'm trying to say nice things about this. fic. No, it's good. It has well

Lilly 32:47

developed characters. I've never read it, but that's what it sounds like.

Sara 32:52

Yeah, it only you can put that much more succinctly than I can because words, yuck. Anyway, so there's this Feck and it stopped updating a good number of years ago. Like, I want to say 2013 or 2014, or something. It's been a long time since the story updated, which was a shame because they had gotten like the story starts when Harry is 11. And they had gotten up to his fifth year, so he's 14.

Lilly 33:24

Yeah, we have for Harry Potter spoilers. No, right. Everyone knows Harry Potter.

Sara 33:33

We have to tag for Harry Potter spoilers. I mean, we haven't even spoiled. We haven't even spoiled the end of the Harry Potter series. Like I've said that Voldemort gets, you know, blown up the beginning, but

Lilly 33:47

you just told me three chapters or something?

Sara 33:50

That's Oh, unless you're talking about are we are we giving spoilers for this story? But also I don't think so. Because that's a very basic premise. That is your you discover when you're reading when you read the fifth, you discover that in the first chapter. So I'm gonna call and that's a spoiler.

Lilly 34:11

First 10% If any work, not a spoiler, laying that down. Yeah, the first 10% is not a spoiler.

Sara 34:20

I concur. Anyway, so this deck, very long, very plati. Very interesting. There it is. Again, I keep saying interesting. While you enjoy reading, expand my vocabulary, and you want to know what happens next? Yes, I mean, I'm not saying what I'm saying is that I've discovered in the course of doing this podcast that I use the word interesting, quite a lot.

Lilly 34:46

Vocabulary, you are on the edge of your seat. You can't wait to find out what happens next.

Sara 34:52

Exactly. This is the kind of story where you know you stay up until two o'clock to read it, even though you say Oh, I'm gonna go to bed at 10 And then you keep saying one more chapter and one more chapter. But the chapters are long, and they're interesting. The chapters are long, and the characters have lots of adventures.

Lilly 35:13

So when you when you say interesting, I'm going to unpack that. I'm going to needle at you about that. So you don't know what's going to happen next, or you're enjoying the journey, like which one of those?

Sara 35:26

I mean, I'd say both of them. Because, and granted, it's been a long time since I've read this thick. I need to go back and reread it. But you don't you want to have you want to find out what happens next. Like you're you're intrigued by what's going on. Anyway. So the long and short of it is there's this really good story hasn't been updated in years and years and years and years and years. It's one of my biggest regrets that this long plati story that I would like, give my left arm to see the end of it to see it finished, is never going to it's never going to be finished. It's never going to be updated. I'm resigned to that fact, because it's been like six years. And then the day of our first podcast session, or planning session, I checked my email. And there's an update. I mean, granted, it was just an author's note saying, yes, rats

Lilly 36:28

in the door, the plugs sound is that a thing? I can totally do that right? I'll figure it out. Probably

Sara 36:35

you probably can do that. Yes. So granted, it was just an author's update, or an author's note saying that the fic was not abandoned, and it would be coming back to it. But I still took it as a good omen because, like, likes, on a on a fix that I had given up for dead. It was very exciting. In all of them. That is the good omen for this for this podcast.

Lilly 37:00

I mean, I agree and all of the 1000 1000 plus days that they could have had an update that that actually does sort of bring up an interesting topic that I want to discuss and that I know we are on, maybe not opposite sides of but maybe we are on opposite sides of which is the risk assessment involved in starting and incomplete work. And at first, I was sort of framing this as a fan fiction conversation, because I think that's one of the that's one of the instances where you are reading something as it is being written. And I guess technically book series are the same way. But actually, I think Game of Thrones is a really good example of this in the sort of professional I was professional publication world. Is there a better phrase

Sara 37:53

to bring up Game of Thrones actually? Yeah. No, I don't. I don't. I think that's a fine phrase for it.

Lilly 38:01

Protection. Professional versus amateur. I feel like that's the best delineation. Um, yeah,

Sara 38:07

but actually published versus not professionally published. Yeah,

Lilly 38:12

I, I don't want to diss self published works. But I just like fanfiction versus Well, original works. There we go.

Sara 38:21

Yeah. Fanfiction versus original works.

Lilly 38:24

I but like I personally, mostly encounter this in the fanfiction world, by which I mean, I don't encounter it because I run screaming in the other direction and refuse to even attempt. But game like Game of Thrones is a series that was started that people have been following for years. decades. I'm not actually sure when the first book came out a very long time ago. And it's it's an ongoing series that when's the next one coming out? No one even knows. And other than Game of Thrones, I would argue that I assume if a book is published, the story will be finished. That's that's kind of an assumption that I have, which is probably wrong. And I feel like people have maybe been disillusioned with that system. With with Game of Thrones.

Sara 39:22

Yeah, I mean, I think you're right in that when you see a published work you do kind of assume that there will be another published work to follow it if it's part of a series and then eventually the series will be completed. Well, cuz I problem of, for example, the Wheel of Time, which we were talking about where the author died before he could finish it. And if he wasn't so clear about where he was going with the series, would his estate and his widow have been able to find another author to write the last couple of books? I don't know. I'm not familiar

Lilly 39:56

with that situation. Um, Do you have any idea?

Sara 40:02

I mean, I don't. So I don't know what sort of preparation he did. I had no nothing around the circumstances of his death.

Lilly 40:10

Oh, during his last days, the writer began dictating onto a recorder, how the prologue for the final book would play out, and feverishly scribbling down the ending he had kept stored away in his mind for the past 17 years. This is according to the Los Angeles Times that came out in 2008. So it sounds like interesting. He did. No, he wasn't going to finish it. And so he annotated for that purpose. That's yeah, doesn't make a big difference. But I was just curious. But so the point is, starting something that hasn't been finished, I actually take a very similar view of television shows, just any, any story that well, any any story, we use plati earlier, and I think that takes place now, like that's relevant now. Because like Brooklyn, nine, nine, who cares? It's, it's episodic, it's whatever. But then you have have shows like, I'm gonna use Stranger Things as an example. But I think they do a good job of ending each season, not knowing if there will be another one. And I appreciate that about them, though. So yeah, not to be

Sara 41:19

not true. Susan is fairly self contained.

Lilly 41:23

Each season has its own story. And there is the overarching, like, and they do like leave hooks for next season. Like of course they do. But they complete what they started out doing in each season, which I appreciate not to have Firefly PTSD, but I really disliked those that end when they weren't supposed to end. And I feel the same way about like I said, book series is not something that I run into personally, very often. I don't care if Game of Thrones ever finishes, I was never going to finish the book series into the show ending doesn't bother me, because it's about as good as the rest of it. I said it. But that's also why I do not start fanfiction that hasn't been completed. Just it's it's a heartbreak I'm not willing to take on.

Sara 42:21

For me personally, if I was not willing to start an incomplete FIQ I would be reading very little fanfiction. And as it is, I read quite a lot of fanfiction. So I don't mind starting an incomplete Fick. If the story sounds really interesting, and I really want to read it, I will wait until there are a couple of chapters, because that at least shows that the author is for the time being. And obviously things can change. See this wonderful story that was not updated for six years, that had been up until that point, updated on a fairly regular basis. But at least if there are a couple of chapters, it seems like the author is committed to seeing the story through another hand, if the fic is incomplete, and it hasn't been updated. If I'm coming to like a story not currently being published, but it has a couple of chapters and the last, like update date was in 2018, then I won't read it because I don't think that there's a good chance of finishing it.

Lilly 43:35

It's always interesting to me, when at least on the website, archive of our own, and it will show the number of chapters it's supposed to have, right? Because it'll do yes, out of out of nine or whatever. And it'll say what it was published. So say it was published in July 2018. And it has five out of nine chapters. And it was last updated September 2018. It's like, oh, you cranked these out and you have no intention of ever coming back to this. Why should I waste my time on a story? You did? Yeah. Want to finish?

Sara 44:14

Yeah, I mean, like, that's the kind of story that I wouldn't bother to start. But if there is a story that say someone published it two weeks ago, and then it sounds interesting, and there are two chapters. I'll give that a shot. Because I'm willing to take a chance that the author might continue updating. I don't think I've ever

Lilly 44:35

run into that. It's either, like last updated four years ago. Sucks to be you or it's finished. Like I don't think I really run into the in between that could be because we do read very different types of fanfiction and also different fandoms different like origin works. I don't read any Harry Potter are for example, and I could definitely see that series lending itself to more wiry form. Harry Harry

Sara 45:05

Potter is basically the only thing that I read really, in fanfiction wise, I'm not actually being a huge fan of the source material. I don't like Harry Potter, the books that I watch. I really don't like JK Rowling as a person. Well, I don't

Lilly 45:23

think anyone's gonna argue with with that at this point.

Sara 45:28

No, no, probably not. But but somehow it's the Harry Potter fan fiction that I keep coming back to. I've always been kind of amused by that dichotomy, you know, like, not actually liking the source material liking fan work. It's kind of strange.

Lilly 45:54

This is the very first segment? Well, because it's the very first episode that we are going to call. Is it worth it? Where we discuss books with no spoilers, because otherwise, what's the point? And whether it's worth it to read them? Well, I guess if our answer was it's not worth it, then we can give a sort of rundown. What do you think? I know your answer tonight is yeah, not relevant?

Sara 46:23

Well, well, my answer tonight is both Yes. And no. Because, well, why don't you pose the question. First of all, explain my answers. Yes or no?

Lilly 46:33

All right, Sara. So the Wheel of Time is an extremely long series, you throw out a number earlier, that was absurd, like 27 or 54? Or something? How many books are in the series?

Sara 46:47

Okay, it's 15 bucks. Well, there are 14 that the series itself is 14 books, and then there's a prequel, which makes it 15. All right. And all told, it's probably about like 15,000 pages or so the 15,000

Lilly 47:00

pages is I don't even want to know how many runs roughly. I don't want to know the answer to either of those questions. That's, that's so much. And honestly, I do not have the time or the energy to read that much. However, we will have time is a very important series. So many people know it, talk about it. It I would say it's wired into a TV show. Oh, I didn't actually know that. So

Sara 47:34

it turned into a TV show. All right.

Lilly 47:38

And so I wouldn't be fine with just reading the first one. So I have some frame of reference for conversations for the TV show, et cetera. So Sarah, my question for you is, is it worth it to just read the first Wheel of Time book?

Sara 47:57

So short answer is, if you are reading the first book, for the sake of saying I've read some of the Wheel of Time, and you have no intention whatsoever, of continuing on with the series, no, I don't think it's worth it. If you are saying, Should I read the first book, I am on the fence about reading the rest. But I kind of want to see where the series might be going. May maybe I'll be interested in reading and finishing the series, then I would say yes, do it. If you have no intention of reading the other 13 books? No, I don't think you should. The pros of the and by Pro, I mean pro with an s not pros as in like writing pros, prs? PRs, like pros and cons? Yes. So the pros Book One, one of the pros of book one is that it's mostly a self contained story. So you could theoretically read the first book and think oh, that's, you know, that's the story. That's the end of it. There are a couple of loose ends that wouldn't get tied up. And a couple of characters kind of end on a cliffhanger. But my one problem with that, and this is a minor spoiler. Only very minor that the end of book one. Rand who is one of the main characters, thinks that he has defeated the big bad and you know that he hasn't defeated the big bad because there are another 13 books. Oh, yeah, I wouldn't

Lilly 49:41

even call it a spoiler. Yeah. So

Sara 49:45

that's why I said it's a very minor spoiler. But so if you if if you were somehow able to read the book without knowing that there were another 13 then it would be a self contained story because you would say oh, okay, so they've they've gone through this adventure. Her rant is defeated the big bad, the world has saved, you know, happy ending all around except for the three characters who? Well, the one character who did something dumb that doesn't get resolved for another couple of books, and the two characters whose storylines end in the cliffhanger and the one,

Lilly 50:15

I guess where I come from, is, there are, there are so many books, there are so many books. And what I've heard about Wheel of Time is not compelling enough for me to sink the required time into reading the whole damn series. There's a finite number of hours in the day.

Sara 50:44

I can't see me and it's definitely a commitment. Yeah, it's definitely a commitment. I think it's worth it. Overall, like I'm really enjoying the storyline, and I'm really enjoying how the characters grow. There's a lot also a lot of really interesting politicking going on. It's it's like Game of Thrones, but better. Me, like, well written with with characters whose, whose motives I understand, even if I think they're dumb, and there are some characters where I'm constantly screaming like, Oh, my God, you idiot, why are you doing? Like, why are you so dumb, but I can at least like understand where they're coming from. And, and it makes for a compelling story. Consistent and it makes for you. They're consistent. Yeah, there's this consistency there. But there's also gross. And like, all of the main characters are many of the main characters in books one and books two, and part of Book Three, I just find it annoying. Like you kind of have to, I had a really difficult time getting through the first couple of books. I first picked up the series about 10 years ago. And I read book one, and I read book two, and I never got any further that. Yeah,

Lilly 51:54

that was actually my next question. If it's not worth it to just read the first book. How much time like at what point? Do you give up? Like you obviously, are going to see the series through to the end. But for someone who is on the fence, but is considering it? How many books should they read? Until they decide? Like, no, this isn't for me,

Sara 52:21

I found that the first two books I kind of had to power through. And I think that things for me started getting really intriguing. And like I wanted to keep reading at about book three. So if you're at like the books three, book four, Mark, and you're still thinking, No, I'm not enjoying this. I would I would give it up that okay. Like I think that like, like, if you're not enjoying it at that point, I think you've you've spent enough time trying to make it work that you know that it's just not going to work for you. Yeah, like I say it's worth reading. But But like, like you say there are a finite number of days. And hours, why would you bother spending all of your time trying to read 15,000 words if you hate most of them?

Lilly 53:08

Yeah, and when where's the turning point of? Okay, I have enough foundation. I see you use the word interesting. And I've used the word foundation too much. Where do you where do you have enough of a jumping off point, which is just a synonym for foundation this case? To say that I probably won't like anything else. You're saying like 433 or

53:34

four? I? If?

Lilly 53:36

If If I finish? hated all of it. Just stop. Yeah.

Sara 53:43

Then don't yeah. Because for me, I can't I can't remember if it was really like, where it was in that divide between Book Three and four that I started really enjoying the breeze, but it was around there. So if you're still hitting it by then I think you've given it enough pages, you've given it enough reading time that you should, you should go and do something that you actually are having fun doing. Oh, I should say that there is a thing called the slog, which I have read is supposed to be books like 910 and 11, which are books that one has to power through. I thought book eight was kind of slow, had to use the incentive of drinking wine to get through book eight. But book nine on the other hand, I just flew through. So take the slot with a grain of salt. Obviously I can't speak to book 10s I haven't read book 10 yet, but I really enjoy book nine. I don't think it deserves to be called a slog. I thought a good book.

Lilly 54:51

Honestly, that just makes you want to read book nine and nothing else and I know that's not how series works. But that wouldn't be enough. do vary my turn, it's my turn to say, well, that's the only one I want to read then.

Sara 55:09

I think my favorite book of the books that I've read so far, I think my favorite book was book. I think it was book four, it might have been book five, I can't actually remember exactly. Because I these are a lot of books, and they're very long. And I read them in a short period of time. So they all kind of, you know, smushed together in my mind. But I think that book five thus far has been my favorite.

Lilly 55:34

I'm probably never gonna read this. No, I will. I will prop well, I shouldn't say that. I am unlikely to read these books. There's too many of them. And there's, there's really, it's there's too many other books to read. Maybe if this was 30 years ago, and this was the only fantasy series getting published or whatever. But that's not the world that I live in. No, I don't have to resort to Wheel of Time.

Sara 56:06

To be perfectly honest, I probably wouldn't have read them myself. I like I said, I gave them a shot 10 years ago and couldn't get past Book Two, except that I have a good friend, who is a huge, huge Wheel of Time fan, super excited about the TV show coming out and doesn't have anyone else to squeal about it. So I said, Okay. I will I will attempt to read these books for you. And then I did turn out to actually enjoy

Lilly 56:38

thank you so much. To our first episode of fiction fans.

Sara 56:43

You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at fiction fans pod or find us at our brand new lovely website at fiction fans@cast.com.

Lilly 56:57

We'll see you in two weeks when we talk about the color of magic. The very first piece in our segment the journey to the center of the Discworld, where we explore Terry Pratchett's excellent Discworld series. I hope you all have a lovely day. Goodbye. Hi