Cold Comfort Farm & Guards! Guards!

Episode 16

Release Date: 9/1/2021

Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons

Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett

Disclaimer: things went awry with the sound file, so a) Sara turned into a robot and b) your hosts talk over each other a lot. Sorry in advance. Your hosts talk about Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons and the brilliant 1995 adaptation. They also continue on their Journey to the Center of the Discworld with a discussion of Guards! Guards! (and how refreshing it is to finally get a female character that has more going for her than “love interest"). This episode also includes some talk about how Words Are Weird. Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris” - Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise” - Scott Buckley for the use of “Twilight Echo”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

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Episode Transcript*

*this transcript is AI generated, please excuse the mess.

Lilly 00:05

Hello, and welcome to fiction fans, a podcast where we read books. And other words, too. I'm Lily.

00:13

And I'm Sarah.

Lilly 00:14

Sarah, let's start this podcast with a ray of sunshine. What's something great that happened this week?

00:20

Stupid things for submission this week.

Lilly 00:24

Hey, friends, as you may be able to tell, the recording for this episode got pretty goofed up. I'm going to spare you the robot for the next hour, plus or minus a few minutes. But that means this episode is going to be pretty rough around the edges compared to our usual editing capabilities. Thanks for bearing with us. And if it's too annoying, we'll see you next week.

Sara 00:50

So I have two good things for submission this week. The first is that our uncle Gregory was in the area and he came over for dinner. And it was just really nice to see him because I don't see him very often. I mean, neither of us see him very often. Yeah. But so that was delightful. And then my other good thing is that Blake seven is finally available on britbox In the US, and I'm a huge Blake seven fan. My mother watched the episodes on PBS and recorded them on VHS and like that's how I watched them. These VHS recordings, and I don't think it's been available in the US, since it aired on PBS like way back in the day. So like I can finally I can finally watch blink seven. This is all I wanted for a very long time.

Lilly 01:42

While I'm gonna have to finally watch it. I know you've been telling me about it for decades.

Sara 01:49

Yes, we can make it our galley watch.

Lilly 01:53

I mean, it's not Doctor Who. It feels a little bit wrong. It

Sara 01:57

has no it has Doctor Who actors in it. Okay, close enough. Sure. Close enough. And there's always the Avon cosplayer. That's true. So like there's there's overlap. Theoretically, there's one character who appears a minor character who appears in both series. So theoretically, Blake seven could take place in the wider Doctor Who universe?

Lilly 02:22

Yeah, I'll take it. Sure.

Sara 02:27

Anyway, enough about Blake seven. What's something good that happened for you this week?

Lilly 02:31

Welcome to fiction fans, the Blake's seven podcast,

Sara 02:35

surprise.

Lilly 02:37

Um, I'm probably supposed to talk about camping because I did go camping. But then Chris came out with a new album. And it's so silly that he hasn't released music since his Glee era. And the album he released then was not my cup of tea. I listened to it once and then never again. So he started releasing singles from masquerade recently, and now the whole EP is out. And I love it. Which is really nice. And I thought, Hey, maybe I didn't give 2017 album enough of a chance. No, no. I gave it a perfectly fair chance.

Sara 03:25

Well, I'm very happy for you that you have this new Darren Criss music to listen to.

03:29

Thank you.

Sara 03:31

What are you drinking tonight?

Lilly 03:33

I am just drinking iced tea tonight with a splash of simple syrup.

Sara 03:39

That sounds pleasant. Yeah, it's nice.

Lilly 03:43

How about you? What are you drinking tonight?

Sara 03:45

So at the beginning of the summer, I made what the recipe called plum wine. But what I would call infused vodka with a whole bunch of plums because my father has three plum trees and doesn't know what to do with all of the plums that he gets. So I'm drinking that with some soda water. Hmm. a vodka tonic.

Lilly 04:13

That sounds delicious. It is.

Sara 04:15

It's lovely. Very refreshing.

Lilly 04:18

And have you read anything good lately?

Sara 04:21

I have done a lot of reading because it's been a kind of a while since we've recorded. So I read haemophilia Hilo by Rika Alki which is this cozy magical realism book that set in Hawaii. And I started reading it because I just finished the Wheel of Time surprised I finished the Wheel of Time.

Lilly 04:45

That's all used by now.

Sara 04:47

I don't think that we've have we said it in an episode of the podcast. Maybe we said it when we were talking about brainwash.

Lilly 04:55

I think we've mentioned it but didn't do it.

Sara 04:57

Yeah, but anyway, so I finished We all have time, and I needed a change of pace. And this was just really a delight. Her she has a sci fi novel that's coming out, I want to say on September 22, end of September. And I'm very, very excited for that. So I read that. And I read Red Seas Under Red Skies as part of a buddy read exchange with Benjamin at literature and Lo Fi. And I liked that more than I liked a lot Lies of Locke Lamora. So that was good. And then I also just finished the other day I finished reading the world gives way by Mercer Levine. And I would say that that is probably one of my favorite reads last year. It was very good. Ooh, sci fi. depressing, but very good.

Lilly 05:53

Sometimes, you need a depressing book.

Sara 05:56

Yeah. I mean, I spent the whole book hoping because you know what the ending is going in basically, by chapter one, you you know how it's going to end. And I spent the whole time hoping that it wouldn't end that way. But it did that way. But it was really good. No, I highly recommend it. Have you had a chance to read anything?

Lilly 06:18

Because it's been so long since we've last recorded? Yes. Although it hasn't been a minute. When I went camping, I brought the Oh no. Now it's my turn to struggle through fantasy pronunciations. The my air cycle by Dan Fitzgerald's

Sara 06:40

I've always just pronounced it mayor. Yeah. But then it sounds

Lilly 06:44

like I'm saying, Mayor. I was talking to Danny about it. And I kept saying the mayor. No, not like the mayor, but like, you know, the mayor. So I have no idea. But I've read the first book and a half out of three. And I would definitely, I definitely think of it in my head as one long book in three parts,

Sara 07:10

or at least, he just released an omnibus version. Oh,

Lilly 07:15

okay. I was right. I was gonna say going from the first book to the second definitely felt like these are the this is the same story, right, just continuing on. I will say. So. On the front page, there's a disclaimer that says the book contains sexually explicit and violent content, not the same content, just those two things. But the first book, all of the fun parts Fade to black. And so I was getting all huffy about that, like, Dan, what are you doing? You can't promise me explicit cut. And then oh, the second book is like all right, there it is.

Sara 07:55

Interesting, I didn't realize that there are some steamy scenes in the second book.

Lilly 07:59

There are Yeah, it's very fun.

Sara 08:03

I've read a little bit of the first book, The first book is the hollow road, and really enjoyed it. But because I'm reading on my phone, it tends to get less priority than physical books do.

Lilly 08:18

So I'd Yeah, I made a point of buying the physical books. Well, because I brought them camping and I didn't want to sit and stare at my phone. While camping that feels wrong.

Sara 08:26

That's that's very wrong. Yes.

Lilly 08:29

Even if I am reading for some reason, that's just not correct. If different, and small correction. It's not the hollow road. It's hollow road, because it's actually the name of a city.

Sara 08:42

Okay, okay. My bad. All right. I was close.

Lilly 08:48

But yeah, so I like plowed through the first book and a half, and then I got back from camping and had some raccoon drama. So I haven't had a chance to finish it yet. But I'm very excited. It's really good so far.

Sara 09:04

Well, that's very good to hear.

Lilly 09:08

To avoid spoilers for the Wheel of Time, skip to 1219. Now, Sara, you teased us a moment ago about finishing the Wheel of Time.

Sara 09:23

Yeah, so I finished the Wheel of Time. I do have a bit of a Wheel of Time check in although, as a disclaimer, I finished book 14 Around August 1, and it is no August 28 When we were recording. So I do not have these events fresh in my memory. But overall, I enjoyed it. I found the conclusion satisfying. I did think that there were a little too many descriptions of battles, like this book is 1100 pages long, right? And it's basically just one One long battle or a lot of battle, like a lot of battles back to back to back. And there are only so many times I can read about the stench of battle and how tired everyone is. And like, also, the first couple of battles in the beginning of the book, don't feel urgent, because, like, you know, it's there fighting for the like, essentially the end of the world. But like, you also know, you still have another 900 pages left. Nothing, nothing that happens now is going to be that impactful, or you know, that major. So I just I had battle fatigue. And also like, given that it was the final battle, and given the scope of this final battle, it wouldn't have made sense for there to be no deaths, but I also did not want there to be any death. And there were some desks. Oh, that I did not appreciate. And then my final note is just fuck that one. No, seriously, like fuck him. He is the absolute worst. Agree and deserved better. He's just he's I saw someone on Twitter say that he was toxic Max. Masculinity personified. Which is so accurate. Like he was just he was the literal worst. I hate him so much. Like, I hate I hate this dude.

Lilly 11:24

Good dance over that. You don't have to read about him anymore.

Sara 11:27

I don't but oh my God, he's so frustrating. Like he he is the reason why a green dies. And he's stupid about it. Like if, anyway, Okay, I'll stop ranting about him. But he's the actual worst. And I will be interested to see how that is portrayed in the TV show.

Lilly 11:53

I forgot about that. That's right.

Sara 11:54

What is that going out? supposed to come out November? I think we still don't have a trailer. The showrunner said that we would get a trailer by the end of summer. So like, times a tickin?

Lilly 12:07

Well, I'll probably watch the show. I can watch a show much quicker than I could read that dang series.

Sara 12:14

I think I think you should watch the show, if only so that we can talk about it on the podcast. Hey, go.

Lilly 12:23

Sarah, I took so much joy in forcing you to read and watch Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons with me.

Sara 12:31

You certainly did force me to read and watch it. I say force. I did enjoy it. But I probably would not have picked up the book. Have it not been for you insisting that we read it. And I certainly wouldn't have watched the movie, because I don't watch a lot of movies.

Lilly 12:45

But I'm sure it was worth every second.

Sara 12:46

It was delightful.

Lilly 12:50

This book is so strange, but I love it so much. It's about Flora post, who is 19 years old and recently orphaned. And she decides instead of getting a job, which is what her friend says she's going to have to do. She says, No, I'll just find some family to take me in. And I'll just be a parasite as a career.

Sara 13:20

I mean, in her defense, that does sound a lot more fun than working.

Lilly 13:24

Yes. Oh, and there was some really good lines about how she was very well educated, but not in anything that was at all practical or important for survival. And as someone with an English degree,

Sara 13:42

I get that that resonated.

Lilly 13:44

Yeah. The branch of her family that she decides to stay with are the stark actors who live on Cold Comfort Farm. And it's a fucking mess. Which flora is excited about? Because she wants to fix them.

Sara 14:03

She does not like maths.

Lilly 14:05

No, she doesn't. It's just such a. It's such a weird book.

Sara 14:10

So when you pitch this to me, you said that it was satire, but what you failed to mention was that it's actually humorous. Oh, and that there's so that was that was one of the reasons for my reluctance to read it, because I thought it was gonna be grim and depressing. But there there is a lot of humor to it. And it actually reminded me a lot of Terry Pratchett at times. I mean, a 1920s version of Terry Pratchett maybe, but there are some lines in this book that were straight out of this world.

Lilly 14:42

Yeah, it's a very not understated humor, but it's played very straight the entire time, like the characters are doing and saying completely absurd things, but treating it like it is completely reasonable. Hmm, what was one of your Pratchett lines?

Sara 15:03

One of the lines that struck me as being something that you would find in the Discworld novel, is Miriam, who's the housekeeper is talking with her daughter. And her daughter has just been given the contraceptive speech by Flora.

Lilly 15:21

Because I should say, she just popped out her fourth child and was like, Yeah, I mean, I guess it's gonna happen next year, because it happens every year. What can you do about it? And for us, like, let me tell you what you can do about it.

Sara 15:35

There are there are some things you can do about it. I agreed her daughter heavily tis wickedness to flying in the face of nature. That's right, a pause during which Mrs. Beetle stood with her broom suspended, looking firmly at the oil stove. Then she added all the same, it might be worth trying.

Lilly 15:56

This entire conversation, they've been railing against Florida for suggesting something so awful. But yeah, as soon as they're in private, it's like, actually, this is a great idea

Sara 16:10

that that dichotomy of, well, this is wickedness, but maybe it's worth trying, is something that you see in a lot of Discworld books.

Lilly 16:21

Absolutely. And that that's a theme that we see in this book a lot. Flora represents progress. And so she's come to this farm and said, is going just because you've always done things this way, doesn't mean you should continue doing them this way. And the book, On a larger scale is making fun of how nothing is actually this simple to solve. You can't just go live with a family for a couple of months and completely change everything and make everyone's lives better. But in this book, you can and it's lovely. But what are the other examples of that is? Adam, another one of the farmhands does all of the dishes with a twig?

Sara 17:10

Doesn't everyone wash this twig?

Lilly 17:13

Well, Flora doesn't, I don't think she washes dishes at all. But she buys him, you know, a dish scrubber, and it's so beautiful. He cries and he hangs it up and never uses it. continues to wash dishes with a twig.

Sara 17:30

So in that sense, I wouldn't say that his problems go soft at all. That's true. But he's also not part of the family. She was trying to help him though. That's true.

Lilly 17:40

Oh, and he has his life has significantly changed by the end of the book.

Sara 17:45

Yes, but not as not, as far as we know. His dishwashing habits.

Lilly 17:51

Fair enough. Oh, so the reason why Flora has to go live with someone is because her inheritance, it turns out is only 100 pounds per year, which is a complete nonsense number. Not only am I not super familiar with British pounds, it's also 1920s money. So that's like saying cumbersome Jabberwocky number. I didn't look it up though.

Sara 18:20

You have no frame of reference for that number?

Lilly 18:22

None whatsoever. Maybe, you know, it could have been the author making a joke about oh, I only get 100 grand a year. You know, like who knows? It's not though. I looked it up and translating pounds today's pounds and then into American dollars, because that's what I understand. That's like saying she makes a little over $9,000 A year or receives from her inheritance. So I get it. Yeah, that's not enough to live on.

Sara 18:56

Certainly not in the places that we live. That's true.

Lilly 19:01

You mentioned Miriam earlier, Mrs. Beetle, who is dealing with her daughter's abundance of children. And she has a really wonderful plan for doing so. Maybe one of my favorite parts of the book that I did not remember. And I got there and I was like, this is the best.

Sara 19:24

Do you want to explain what her plan was?

Lilly 19:27

Yeah, she was gonna train them all up to be jazz musicians. Does Yes. Yes, of course, as one does, because jazz bands make however much money per gig. And she was like, that's great. You know, I'll train up all these kids, and then they'll be my jazz band, and then they'll make money for me. So Flora then proceeds to refer to this group of infants as Miriam's embryo jazz band, which is just the best phrase in the entire world. I'm

Sara 20:02

surprised that there's not a band with that name in existence.

Lilly 20:05

There were a couple of other extremely good lines that had us had me laughing my ass off during the movie. And all of those best lines were directly from the book. So that was fun.

Sara 20:21

I was I was delighted to find them. Because when we watched the movie, I had read the first like, 30 pages of the book or so. So I was delighted to see those lines represented in the book.

Lilly 20:32

And that's always the question right? When you because I saw the movie before I read the book. I'm not just this week, obviously, but back in the day. And it's always a delight to find out that the movie is actually an accurate representation. Because you never know, they might have taken the source material and created this wonderful movie out of it. That doesn't mean the book is the same.

Sara 20:56

I was actually impressed by how faithful of an adaptation it was like there are a couple of minor changes to the end, but nothing that affects the substance of the story. And it it just, as you say it has dialogue that's lifted straight out of the books.

Lilly 21:16

One of which is certainly in McKellen's character because surprise, Gandalf is in this movie. He plays Flora's cousin at most, who enjoys preaching. That's like his hobbies. He goes into town and he preaches at the little

Sara 21:32

church fire and brimstone preacher.

Lilly 21:36

And his way of describing the fires of hell is by declaring there will be no butter which is so strange.

Sara 21:52

That was probably there probably won't be any butter in hell.

Lilly 21:55

That's true. I mean, he's not wrong. Presumably. There's certainly no butter in his version of hell. I bet there's someone out there who's held would just be entirely butter.

Sara 22:05

They're actually you have a you have a good point there. Yeah,

Lilly 22:09

it was only butter and

Sara 22:13

you only get extremes. Butter, no butter.

Lilly 22:19

Probably the best line in the entire thing is directed at Aunt Aida Doom, which is a very good name. That's a name, be it. She is the sort of matriarch of the family who never leaves her room, catered to hand and foot and has just throws a total fit if anyone leaves the farm ever, or if anything changes, so she's definitely the main not antagonist but stumbling block for Flora to enact these changes for these people's lives. And her refrain through the entire book, why she is so unwell and why she needs everyone to do what she says is that when she was a little girl, she saw something nasty in the woodshed. Now, we never find out what this was. It's just constantly repeated that she saw something nasty in the woodshed. And everyone just kind of you know, took cows tiptoes around her. But at one point when a florist friends is visiting. And as aunt ADA says this, he just turns and says, but did it see you?

Sara 23:37

That's actually a scene that I think works better in the movie than it does in the book. I enjoyed it in the book. Don't get me wrong, but the actors play it with such like panache in the movie that it just, it's so hilarious and Pitch Perfect.

Lilly 23:58

Absolutely. I the thing about this book, because it is so far removed from me just as a person, right? Like it's almost 100 years old and satire of a genre that I don't actually read all that much. There are lines like that, that I don't necessarily pick up as suppose to be a joke right away. But when it said in the movie, just like that really, really good clap back. Yeah, it lands perfectly.

Sara 24:33

It does land really perfectly.

Lilly 24:35

Where you confirming that this book is indeed almost 100 years old.

Sara 24:39

I was I was looking at Yeah, I was I wanted to see if I could find the initial publication date. And I didn't there's a letter from Stella Gibbons to her editor or publisher or a person she admires as the forward And that's dated 1931 to 1932. So it's not quite 100 years old. But getting there.

Lilly 25:09

That's it almost.

Sara 25:11

Oh yeah, I just I just wanted, I just wanted to check and see if I can find an actual date. It's funny though, because for all that this book was written in the 30s. There are some aspects of it that still ring very true today. For example, one of Florida's suitors, a Mr. My bug, is writing a book. And his book is a book about how Wuthering Heights couldn't have been written by Charlotte Bronte, and how the Bronte sisters couldn't have written their books. They were all written by their alcoholic brother. And it struck me as just so like modern, because we still get people claiming that, you know, women can't write these things. And it's all it's all the man's doing.

Lilly 26:02

Is is that modern, or do people today just troglodytes?

Sara 26:07

Well, I mean, it remains a modern problem, that one can satirize,

Lilly 26:14

indeed, he also has the third line that I have picked out as the best lines in the book. His go to pickup line is walking up to a lady and asking, do you think women have souls?

Sara 26:32

Man, that's just romance right there. Like that's what I want to be asked on a first date.

Lilly 26:39

Gotten not even a date. He just saw Flora sitting in a restaurant and like, went over and sat at her table. And her interior monologue is pretty damn good. They're like, Oh, no.

Sara 26:56

He was he was treated with the respect that he deserves, which is very little.

Lilly 27:01

That's true. So before we move on to the spoiler section, why should you read Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons, I think this book has value on a couple different levels. One is, like Sarah mentioned, it's very funny. It's very quiet humor, but it is extremely funny, and well written. And just an enjoyable read all around. And I don't think this is a spoiler, it has a happy ending. So that's like, this look, it's just very weird. But also very, like, always puts me in a good mood. Because I'm just baffled and delighted the entire time.

Sara 27:45

I feel like if you enjoy Terry Pratchett and you enjoy Jane Austen, this is kind of a combination of the two.

Lilly 27:52

Well, that was going to be my other comment is that I do find value in reading old things, because it is broadening. You can you know, both old and new stories have different pros and cons. And it is just a little window into what Stella Gibbons was feeling in 1931, which is neat. Like, I just think that's really cool. And especially like you said, with how it's not really that different.

Sara 28:26

There are some bits that I wish resonated less.

Lilly 28:31

And so it's cool to find those similarities.

Sara 28:34

Cool or sad, we still have them.

Lilly 28:37

Okay, that the misogyny thing? Yes, but a lot of Flora's musings about how the problem that everyone over 25 has is not having enough money, or, like suddenly having to support herself and even though she's been like, had a great education, she has no actual survival skills in the real world. Or she's constantly trying to write a book Flora post is in the book, and is doing some ridiculous purple prose. Like all of those things are also familiar and less sad. To avoid spoilers for Cold Comfort Farm, skip to 4446. We mentioned how similar the movie is to the book. But I would say the one character who is changed the most is Judith Flores cousin Judith, who basically runs the farm not the farming operations part but manages the household and is the person sort of carrying out all of our Adas requests In the movie, she's kind of I mean, she's,

Sara 30:06

I don't actually think that there's much changed between her character in the movie and her character in the book.

Lilly 30:12

Maybe they just went so over the top with her in the movie, it seems really silly. Whereas in the book, she's slick, very severe and kind of scary. Whereas in the movie, she's like, so over the top that it's laughable. I feel like there's a little

Sara 30:30

bit of that in the book as well, though. I mean, you, you get more have Flora's like inner dialogue. So I think you can you can see how Judas manner affects people more. Whereas in the movie, you're just kind of seeing like, outwardly, and we have that distance, you know, like, like, we can laugh about it. But I think that that someone who is actually in that situation wouldn't necessarily find it quite as humorous.

Lilly 31:00

That's a good point. And I, I would say her character is the one that I don't know how I feel about it. Everyone else, Flora just helps. That, you know, they get what they want, that they didn't even know that they wanted it. But all of their hearts desires are fulfilled. Except poor Judith just ends up in a mental hospital.

31:23

Yeah, I mean,

Sara 31:26

that's not great. On the other hand, she does seem happier with the help that she receives. So like pros and cons.

Lilly 31:38

That's true. And she absolutely did need some kind of mental health attention. So she did need help. Maybe it's just I'm putting my understanding of the 1930s mental health situations.

Sara 31:56

Yeah, I feel I feel like looking at it with modern sensibilities. We think, well, she's essentially going. It's not she's not going to an asylum, but like, it's not the kind of care that we in 2021 would give someone who was suffering from these kinds of issues.

Lilly 32:18

I mean, she gets sent by a nursing home, which feels a little like, she's just getting shuffled to the side, right. But yeah, she is way happier. And she's excited to go play chess with Dr. whatever his name was.

Sara 32:31

So I mean, she's, she's getting care. It's not the level of care that we think that she needs, but it's the level of care that was available to her.

Lilly 32:41

Yeah, that's a good point. So like I said, I don't dislike her ending, but the other characters like got to marry the rich neighbor, or became a movie star in Hollywood.

Sara 32:55

It's it's a less satisfying ending, that's for sure. Although I will say that. One of the things that I don't like and I think that Stella Gibbons was making a point here, but Ruben who takes over the farm in the movie, he falls for rennet, who is I don't actually know what her relationship to any of these characters are.

Lilly 33:23

I do not know that family tree at all. It's a mess.

Sara 33:26

It's funny. She's She is someone to these people. And she ends up with with my bug the misogynist, who doesn't think that women have souls. And that's that's a whole other issue that you know, poor rennet, but So, in the in the movie, she ends up with Rubin, but in the book, Rubin just goes, Oh, I'll marry the daughter of one of my farmhands who's like, definitely a child still. And he's like, she's like,

Lilly 34:00

13 or something. Yeah. Like, he's, it's

Sara 34:01

not that he's marrying her now. But, like the fact that he's going to marry her in the future when this is a grown ass man.

34:11

Yeah, like,

Sara 34:13

that's kind of skeevy I know that, that you're satirizing this, but also, that's kind of skeevy

Lilly 34:21

if you were trying to make me find this practice, gross and weird. You did a good job. Yeah, there are a lot of child arranged marriages in this hall. Yeah. Although none that actual. Well, I guess that one may happen. But the other one that I'm thinking of is El Fein. Who is, uh, I think she's like 16 Or no, she's 17.

Sara 34:42

She's 17 I think Yeah. Who is

Lilly 34:45

the one who is in love with the rich neighbor in Florida. Just like gives her a total makeover, but even to the extent of like, telling her she can't talk about poetry. Some men don't like girls, you read poetry so you have to do it in secret, that kind of stuff. And so that that whole thing would feel bad except it gets Elfine out of her arranged marriage with her cousin Urk. Who is horrifying. He is

Sara 35:15

a great a creep. I was like,

Lilly 35:19

man, if all you have to do is pretend not to like poetry to get out of that. Fine, totally cool.

Sara 35:26

Get a haircut, get some new clothes, like Yeah, I'm on board with this. If it means that you don't have to marry irk

Lilly 35:32

Yeah. Because he is like, basically stalking her. The entire book, and he was promised her when she was born. And he would like paint symbols on her baby bottles and animal blood or something. It was a situation

Sara 35:52

he is um, yeah. Yeah. He was he was a little offbeat.

Lilly 36:03

That's for sure. But yeah, I think l fiends makeover would rubbed me the wrong way. If it weren't for that alternative.

Sara 36:15

Yeah, but also Elfi and is like really into it. I mean, she Oh, yeah. So that that kind of softens the blow to, like, we think, Oh, you shouldn't have to give up. You know, everything that you enjoy in order to be with a man. But she's happy to do it. She's like, yes, I want to be with him.

Lilly 36:35

In the book, it goes into a little bit more than the movie. But we find out that she has adopted this sort of whimsical nature spirit running around and flowy dresses and capes with bare feet in the forest. Like less than a year ago. It's, it literally is just a phase. Yeah. And we find out that she picked up all these habits from some cookie crafting lady in town, like some shop owner, probably just because she's the first person who ever paid attention to L Fein who

Sara 37:14

isn't like a creepy stalker is nice to her. Yeah.

Lilly 37:17

So she just picked up all of these things. But now, but in the book, her and flora actually get really close. And so she just picks up all of Florida's habits and hobbies instead. So it was great. She had a new person to imprint on.

Sara 37:33

I mean, I hope that that she learns to be her own person. But that's maybe outside of the confines of the novel.

Lilly 37:44

The last thing I wanted to talk about was Aida Doom, which is still the best frickin name in the world.

Sara 37:51

I mean, it, it's a good name. And it's also a name that you have to say. Like, you can't just say the first name, or the last name, you have to say the full name when we think about her.

Lilly 38:06

Absolutely. So she sort of bludgeoning the family into doing what she says by laying out laying on her health, but

Sara 38:18

well, she she learned early on that it was convenient for her to be mad. So she she plays up that aspect.

Lilly 38:25

Yeah. And Flora realizes right away, that there's not really anything wrong with ADA do. She, it's almost entirely an act to get people to do what she wants. And Flora does eventually call her out on it. And this was maybe the cheapest transformation, writing wise, because Flora posts just has one conversation with this lady after butting heads with her for a whole book.

Sara 38:54

And it's also not a conversation that we see really. Yeah, like it's an off screen or an off off page conversation.

Lilly 39:03

She just says, Actually, older women can have a great time in Paris. That's it. It didn't go so well. All right, I'll go to Paris like I guess it does fit with the ongoing theme that the other characters are the people in Cold Comfort Farm. Just never considered living life a different way. And so having this sort of chaotic are not the opposite of chaotic, but this new influence revealed to them that things could be different. They didn't even know it was an option.

Sara 39:41

Sometimes you just need a new perspective. And that's what Flora post provides.

Lilly 39:45

Yeah. It is such an absurd concept that she just worlds into their lives and starts meddling and it all works out fine. You really expect in this story, everything to blow up in her face at some point but it doesn't

Sara 40:00

Which was, which was nice. I mean, sometimes I just want to read a book about things going well,

Lilly 40:05

yeah, it's just, it's completely absurd. But there's a super happy ending. She literally flies off in an airplane at the end. Like, into the sunset with her love interest, like, all right,

Sara 40:20

who is also her cousin, but

Lilly 40:24

oh, you know, as rich people. Yeah. Yeah. How come? People in these like society books always know everybody?

Sara 40:35

I feel like society is a really, especially the higher echelons. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't know because I'm no sort of society. But from my understanding, it's a very small community, like very small, insular community. So it makes sense that people would know each other. That sounds miserable. I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you.

Lilly 41:02

Yeah, in books, where there's some kind of rich nobility type. It's not that's not how things work in the even the 20th century. But you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that, that always just seems wild. But yeah. I really do like this book.

Sara 41:22

It was a good book. I thought that I would end up discarding the book afterwards, or or not keeping it. And I think I think that I'll keep it. I think I enjoyed it enough to keep it.

Lilly 41:36

It's earned a place on your bookshelves.

Sara 41:38

It's earned a place. Well, it's earned a place in one of my boxes, because I don't have enough bookshelves yet. But close enough, eventually.

Lilly 41:47

And I did have to buy the DVD. So we could watch it because it's not available for streaming anywhere. But that's fine. Now I own it, and I can force everyone to watch it with me.

Sara 41:58

I would I would rewatch it. It's so fun.

Lilly 42:01

Like, yeah, it really it just makes you feel really good.

Sara 42:05

It was it was a really good movie. I think. I enjoyed the book, but I think that I enjoyed the movie better. I a lot. Like they're, they're pretty equal. But

Lilly 42:16

I think the humor was more accessible. Yeah. I mean, a very similar, I mean, almost word for word from the book. But like you said, because of the deliveries and everything,

Sara 42:27

and it's a star studded cast.

Lilly 42:29

I know. I don't think I mentioned this in the non spoiler section, but Flora post is played by a very young Kate Beckinsale. Oh, and my book is played by Stephen Fry. We didn't mention Sir Ian McKellen. Yes. I think that's it. But it's good.

Sara 42:54

I mean, there's a well there's there's the actress who plays Pomona sprout from Harry Potter. She's Mrs. Beetle.

Lilly 43:02

Oh, that's why she looks familiar. Okay.

Sara 43:06

That was probably why she looked familiar. Yes.

Lilly 43:09

We didn't even talk about Mrs. Smiling who might be one of my favorite characters. So she's not in the book. hardly at all. They combined a couple of minor characters in for the movie.

Sara 43:19

I don't think that she was combined with any other character.

Lilly 43:23

Yeah. Because she, yeah, she helped to give el Fein the makeover in the movie.

Sara 43:27

She but she does that in the book, too.

Lilly 43:30

No, that was a different lady.

Sara 43:32

That was a different lady. Yeah. Well, in my defense, I read this book like a week ago. And I have three things since them so and then

Lilly 43:41

a couple of the floor has more than one gentleman love interest in the book. And they all just got rolled into Charles and the movie, which is fine. That doesn't really change the content at all. Yeah.

Sara 43:57

I mean, I think I think that those are changes that make sense, given that you have so much less time and a movie to explore all of these other characters,

Lilly 44:04

and they don't even really get explored in the book. That's true, too.

Sara 44:11

That's a fair point.

Lilly 44:13

I don't really know how to wrap this up. This is just a it's good book. I liked it.

Sara 44:19

I think this is one of the few books that we have discussed solely because you put it onto the calendar and not me.

Lilly 44:29

It's because you see all of the current stuff on Twitter. Yeah. All of the ones that I've suggested or books that I've read before, which is not the point I want to read new stuff. Summary reads

Sara 44:42

are okay. But summary reads are okay. Yeah. But that's that's true.

Lilly 44:50

All right. You want to introduce this one since I did the last one.

Sara 44:55

So, although you normally introduce her our journey to the Sun Arthur Discworld

Lilly 45:01

is that just because you don't want to say that out loud on the podcast?

Sara 45:07

Maybe maybe just a little bit.

Lilly 45:09

All right. Well, we are once again, taking our journey to the center of the disc world. We have finally gotten into the first of the City Watch, or the Nightwatch books, city. I know Nightwatch is one of the book titles. Yeah, it's

Sara 45:26

Nightwatch is the book title. But I think that the this particular branch of Discworld is called this like the city watch. Okay. Although I'm gonna Google that, because I have a habit of being like making statements, making tentative statements and then being wrong. So

Lilly 45:42

it's all right, you can be wrong sometimes.

Sara 45:46

I would like it to happen a little bit less frequently, but through the power

Lilly 45:50

of editing.

Sara 45:52

Yes. Okay. It is. It is a more pork City Watch. So I was not wrong this time. All right.

Lilly 46:01

But that also means we finally have met Sam Vimes. And he is one of the best characters. I do really love the the City Watch Ark, or the city art books.

Sara 46:16

It's funny because for all the guards guards is not my favorite Discworld book. It's a fine book. Don't get me wrong. It's just not like one of my top 10 Probably,

Lilly 46:28

there's like 40 of them. They can't all be number one.

Sara 46:31

They can't tell me number one. It's a fine book. But for all the guards guards is not my favorite. I think that the City Watch tend to be quite high up there for me. So it was nice to finally be meeting them. Because it has taken us a while.

Lilly 46:49

This is definitely my favorite of the ones we've read so far.

Sara 46:53

Your favorite of the Discworld books that we've read so far.

Lilly 46:56

Yeah, like in in chronological order of publishing date.

Sara 47:00

Right. I don't think I would even say that. But I mean, that's like I said it's a it's a good book. Well

Lilly 47:11

Parashat finally gave us an interesting romance. He has been slowly making his way there just getting a little better each time. But in this book, we got Sybil ramekins who is the absolute best person in the entire world.

Sara 47:29

I like Sybil a lot Lady Sybil is wonderful. I also just have to say that so Lady Sybil rescues, swamp dragons, right breed swamp dragons, breeds and rescues. Okay,

Lilly 47:44

I thought she paired she worked with a rescue with sanctuary.

Sara 47:48

Well, working with a that's the same thing as rescuing. Yeah. Okay,

Lilly 47:51

fair enough.

Sara 47:55

Maybe that maybe a little more specific, but it's the same thing. Yeah. And I just have to say as someone whose parents were deep in the dog show world, all of all of the swamp dragon bits. Were just so spot on. It was it was wonderful. I was laughing at every single thing.

Lilly 48:19

A little bit of context. Swamp dragons are the size of a large cat.

Sara 48:26

Basically, swamp dragons are the pugs of the Discworld there's actually a quote about how they are not well designed creatures Let me see if I can find it

Lilly 48:43

you pulled like four pages out? I mean I dragons are secretly pugs.

Sara 48:49

Well, no, the most of my notes were more generally. The comparison between dragon breeding and dog showing. But there's a lion. I'm afraid they're not very well designed creatures, dragons. And as someone with a pug who needs to go to the emergency vet way more frequently than I would like. That line struck me in my heart. I think that dragons swamp dragons are the pugs of Discworld

Lilly 49:26

swamp dragons because they are very definitely different from I think they're called noble dragons. Yes, in this book, which are the you know, the big scary ones.

Sara 49:37

No, dragons are that are the dragons of fantasy. You know, the traditional fire breathing big scary things.

Lilly 49:47

woolswap Dragons pre fire?

Sara 49:50

Not effectively,

Lilly 49:51

okay. They spit embers

Sara 49:57

and then they blow up more like it's not Yes.

Lilly 50:02

So this book is primarily following the City Watch, which has three whole employees the whole thing while they're dealing with the fact that

Sara 50:14

says really quickly the Nightwatch and not the City Watch,

Lilly 50:17

okay. Well then why is it called the City Watch arc? That's silly.

Sara 50:21

It that is a little bit silly. But the day watch and the Nightwatch are two. Well, I guess I guess they're both no watch. But yeah, they watch them. The Nightwatch are two separate things.

Lilly 50:31

Okay, well, the Nightwatch led by Sam Vimes. Dealing with the fact that a dragon has been seen in more work. And, you know, it's attacking people and burning things and

Sara 50:45

making itself a nuisance.

Lilly 50:48

But dragons has been extinct. So it's like Where the hell did this thing come from? We as readers know that it was summoned. That's like the very that's on the back of the book, I can say that. It's being summoned into existence just for the attacks. But Sam goes to Lady Sybil, because she's the only person who knows anything about dragons, even though she only deals with the the little teeny swamp dragon variety. And she's just really great. She has a force of personality that is often used to great effects to get people to do what she wants. In a in a very effective way.

Sara 51:29

I feel like this is one of the first times in the Discworld novels where a love interest has had a well rounded character that stands up as a character on her own rather than just being there like to fill in the love interest slot.

Lilly 51:49

Definitely, she has a whole lot even a hobby. She has a career. And she's the first one that actually like

Sara 51:57

I mean, she she has an interest outside of her love interest.

Lilly 52:01

Yeah. Which are all of these very cute swamp dragons. And her passion for swamp dragons is what makes Sam Vimes like, develop feelings for her, which is very cool. It's not Oh, I saw this cute girl once and now we're in love. He actually admires her passion for these weird little creatures. And that's really fun to see.

Sara 52:28

I also really appreciate that she's a plus size woman. Like she's she's not and she's older too. So she's not your standard stereotypical love interest. I

Lilly 52:44

don't he describes her as like a Valkyrie. Right? Just just huge. And I guess yeah, probably still plus sized but I definitely saw the the height. Mostly in my head.

Sara 52:56

I've never imagined her as being particularly tall. Like my, my mental image of her does not include height. Really? Yeah, I

Lilly 53:05

swear she's described as towering. Maybe it's just again, her personality.

Sara 53:10

I think that's more her presence and less her actual like physicality. I will say that. I'm pretty sure that in the watch TV show, which I haven't. In all fairness, I have not watched it yet. I may or may not watch it. Because I've heard less than flattering things about it. But there's a recent TV show that follows the Nightwatch that came out on BBC this year or last year or something. And I think that she's played by like a very slender, beautiful woman, which is great. I'm sure the actress is lovely. But that's not Lady Sybil.

Lilly 53:52

No. They, they always say her, her family bred for sturdiness or something.

Sara 54:02

Yeah, they're not deign to, you

Lilly 54:04

know, so having a having a relationship, spark into grow. Because of actual like, human interest is very good. Good for you. Pratchett. He's growing.

Sara 54:18

He does feel like he's growing as an author.

Lilly 54:20

I do love how vetinari and flora post from Cold Comfort Farm I think would get along very well.

Sara 54:28

It kind of I kind of want to read that fanfiction.

Lilly 54:33

Oh, they would just they would probably take over the world. Actually,

Sara 54:38

I'm sure they would.

Lilly 54:40

There's a line about vetinari pretty early on when he gets introduced that he was a great believer in the need for things to be sorted out. Which is almost like word for word of health. Laura describes she I think it's for her she dislikes messes. Yeah, it's Pretty like it's pretty similar

Sara 55:02

there, one to one correlations there.

Lilly 55:07

But this is also the first time we've seen him in, in depth, which we're going to talk about more in the spoiler section. But

Sara 55:14

yeah, he gets turned into into a lizard in an earlier book. But

Lilly 55:20

yeah, it's like a whole one whole line before

Sara 55:23

you spend the whole book as a lizard. So it was vetinari. I have a huge soft spot for vetinari. So it was nice to see him get some some page time.

Lilly 55:36

There's the other members of the City Watch who I really love with my whole heart. Nobby Nobbs is maybe the best person I already said that about Sybil, but there can be two best people. I also love how their friends Nobby Nobbs is always described as like, human adjacent. He's just a strange little man, who always seems to be smelly, and not exactly rude, but not exactly sophisticated either.

Sara 56:09

He lacks social graces. Yeah, but

Lilly 56:12

he's always nice, except for when he's stealing things. But you know, face to face. He's usually nice to people.

Sara 56:20

And he just kind of has these kleptomaniac tendencies.

Lilly 56:23

Yeah, but him and Sybil get along really well, which is super cute. They do. They're kind of both intrigued by the other in a fun way. And we also meet carrot in this book, who is the new recruit for the Nightwatch. He is a dwarf from the mountains, who gets sent to join the watch because he was adopted and is too tall for all of the tunnels.

Sara 56:49

Here is culturally dwarf but genetically human.

Lilly 56:53

Yes. He's a dwarf he identifies as a dwarf.

Sara 56:56

Yes, he does identify as a dwarf. But

Lilly 56:59

yes. Not quite the right geometry for Dwarven life, though?

Sara 57:02

No.

Lilly 57:04

But he is extremely literal. And does lots of very, very silly things because people use metaphors, and he doesn't get it.

Sara 57:17

I mean, and that that goes along with him being a dwarf because dwarves in Discworld. Don't use metaphors the way that we do.

Lilly 57:28

He's also another one of these young male characters that have absolute zero concept of sex. Which is a weird thing to show up in like every single book. Have you noticed that?

Sara 57:44

I mean, who would you what? What characters would you say have had a similar lack of knowledge regarding sex? And Discworld?

Lilly 57:56

Maybe not male characters, but didn't Malgrat have like no idea how babies were made?

Sara 58:03

Yeah. Malgrat, I think, is kind of oblivious to male. Right. But

Lilly 58:10

I take that back.

Sara 58:11

I don't think more it comes up that much.

Lilly 58:17

But when it does, she's just like, completely?

Sara 58:21

I don't? Well, I don't recall.

Lilly 58:25

I don't either, but I feel like it has come up multiple times.

Sara 58:29

I don't think it's come up quite as often as you're implying.

Lilly 58:33

Well, I can't remember any of them. So,

Sara 58:35

I mean, neither can I. So we're kind of at an impasse. Yeah. Well,

Lilly 58:40

I would say that me not remembering them is maybe a point in your favor.

Sara 58:47

Probably I'll take that point. But it's true that that carrot just does not really have any kind of understanding of sex whatsoever. Yep,

Lilly 59:02

that's all it was more interesting when I thought there was a bunch of them. But I really do think that it comes up more than once, whatever. We mentioned how vetinari is a character from earlier books, although this was really where you actually get to see him do anything. There are a couple other points in this book that I think really encapsulate the Discworld reading experience quite well. Because there are some references to earlier books that if you have read them are really fun Easter eggs. But if you haven't read them, you still get the joke. Like it does not affect your enjoyment or understanding of this book at all. I'm thinking specifically of in Super ants, or insurance,

Sara 59:53

which is something that comes up in the first book.

59:57

Yeah, the

Lilly 1:00:00

One of the main characters in the first book introduces the concept of in sewer ants to Uncle morepork. And so all we really get in this book is them saying in sewer ants instead of insurance, and how Ogmore pork has adopted it in their own way. But then like, when people ask, do you have to read them in order, that's the kind of thing like, by reading it in order, you'll get that reference. But it's still funny, even if you haven't.

Sara 1:00:31

Along those lines, there's also the characters, that librarian who shows up here, who is, of course, at this point, and Arang, a tang, but you don't get any explanation for that beyond like one line. Whereas if you've read the earlier books, you know, why he was changed, and you have some of that background, but you can still enjoy the character without having read the previous books.

Lilly 1:01:01

I almost like it better for the librarian, specifically, because that's how that's always how he himself handles it. Right? People start asking questions, and he just sort of rolls his eyes and walks away, basically. So that's just Yeah, it doesn't really matter. He's choosing to stay this way. Because he likes it better. It's fine. Get over it. But, yeah, the question of, do you have to read them in order? Nah.

Sara 1:01:35

I mean, as we've argued, in the previous episodes of this podcast, you probably shouldn't. But guards guards is a good place to start. If you're interested in reading Discworld?

Lilly 1:01:49

Yeah, I actually think of the books we have read on this journey to the center of this world. Yeah, like I said, it's been my favorite so far, and would probably be my recommendation out of the book so far.

1:02:06

I

1:02:08

think that I

1:02:12

Well, I'm not sure.

Sara 1:02:15

It's, it's definitely one of my favorites of, of the books that we have read thus far. And it is, as I've set a really great place to start. I'm not sure if it would be the clear favorite for me from for starting points out of what we've read. But

Lilly 1:02:38

while there isn't a clear favorite, if someone's just super into riches, read the witches books, but I think this book is a lot more developed. As far as Pratchett's writing style goes, that's fair. So you're getting a lot more of that and higher quality like the characters are so much better and

Sara 1:02:58

I do think that there's more nuance to the characters in this and like if you if you want, kind of that like gritty BEAT COP feel with fantasy, this is very definitely where you should start.

Lilly 1:03:15

Or swamp dragons. Read this book for the swamp dragons. They sound very cute.

Sara 1:03:23

If you like, dog show, satire. If you enjoyed Best in Show want the fantasy version that makes it sound like this focuses on but some dragons which it was not. But

Lilly 1:03:41

it is one of the funnest funnest parts though.

Sara 1:03:45

It's very good.

Lilly 1:03:48

To avoid spoilers for Guards, guards, skip to 114 55 vetinari doing crazy vetinari stuff.

Sara 1:04:03

I was very happy to see vetinari I love vetinari I was I said I have a soft spot for him. Mostly because I had a huge crush on him and Nightwatch Not gonna lie.

Lilly 1:04:16

He's Savage, it's great.

Sara 1:04:18

He's wonderful.

Lilly 1:04:22

He is the one credited with turning all of the crime associations into sanctioned guilds, which as I've mentioned before is something I quite enjoy just that concept tickles me how to know

Sara 1:04:40

I mean he's he has taken what was a kind of dysfunctional city and turn it into something that works really smoothly, even if it's not what we would consider a traditional, you know, hierarchy

Lilly 1:05:01

He also I don't know you you get the scheming politician character a lot. But it just something about that Nari is so well done.

Sara 1:05:15

He didn't want one thing that I did notice though, is he his, he has an old dog whittles or something. Who doesn't show up in this book

Lilly 1:05:27

he's mentioned

Sara 1:05:29

is he mentioned? Yeah. So I don't remember seeing him mentioned

Lilly 1:05:33

when they are trying to figure out how to get rid of the dragon. He is offering a cash reward. And all of the heroes are like, oh, yeah, you have to offer me half the kingdom and, and your daughter. And it's like, I don't have a daughter. I have a dog.

Sara 1:05:47

And an aunt. Yes. Yeah, that's, that's true. But I feel like his dog is a lot more prevalent in later books. Like you don't actually see his dog on screen, or on page,

Lilly 1:06:01

him letting Vimes break out of the jail. So when he had a key the whole time is chef's kiss, just tight.

Sara 1:06:13

I've really liked the concept that he built these dungeons as a place for him, because he knows that like if the city ever gets overrun, or, you know, if his rule is overthrown, he'll be thrown in the dungeon. So it makes sense to have all of the locks on the inside. So he controls it. It's true. I mean, like that's some forward thinking. That's the kind of forward thinking you want to see from your ruler.

Lilly 1:06:52

I just, I like that Nari. An awful lot. He is really excellent. And also the just the way he so calmly rolls with everything is really enjoyable to read. That gives him such a quiet power. Like we don't really see him do. We don't really see him flex ever. But the fact that he never feels the need to makes you assume he has something up his sleeve. Right? Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna say that this comes up a lot in practice works. And I don't think I'm wrong this time. But the million to one chances refrain.

Sara 1:07:41

That does that does come up a lot. But I think this is the first time in what we've seen that it's actually expanded upon. And then it just gets mentioned, you know, in

Lilly 1:07:53

later books, the quote that comes to my mind and may not even be a correct quote is a million to one chances work out nine times out of 10 I'm pretty sure that happens at some point.

Sara 1:08:08

But something very similar. Yeah. But

Lilly 1:08:11

in this book, it's a last ditch effort with a million to one chances always works out. So just the scene of the the Nightwatch doofus is trying to reduce their chances and calculate, like, how much nonsense they have to do to get their chances down to a million to one is

Sara 1:08:39

if we if we stand on one foot, you know and wave our arms out and hold this or that where I have on her head

Lilly 1:08:51

and then oh, I'm a little disappointed. We had to put this in the spoiler section but it is actually a spoiler, but more of Pratchett's dirty humor the big bad dragon is not defeated but no longer attacking the city or ruling the city because one of the little swamp dragons will fight the big dragon but ultimately they end up going off and having babies together

Sara 1:09:18

I mean it's you know it's a it's a meeting call yeah a meeting display I mean

Lilly 1:09:26

but the way the swamp dragon gets competent enough able to like actually go head to head with this noble Dragon

Sara 1:09:36

by and we should we should specify first that this is this is not a quote unquote regular swamp dragon who has you know, the regular swamp dragons have some ability to breathe fire and like he's a throwback, he's a runt. He's He's completely or not completely but but quite different from his The rest of his litter

Lilly 1:10:01

were led to believe it is some sort of inbreeding accident or not accident but yeah, mishap. Yeah, Arrow little arrow. So cute. I have no idea what he looks like but I do have a soft spot for Derby animals.

Sara 1:10:17

I'm telling you pugs.

Lilly 1:10:20

So it's explained by Lady Sybil that the swamp dragons insides are constantly shifting around to make sure that the various chemicals in there don't make them explode to various degrees of success. But Errol rearranges his insides so that how is it put? He's described as the first dragon ever to flame backward. So the day is saved by Dragon farts.

Sara 1:10:52

And what a silly image that is of seeing just this dragon propelled himself by, you know the strength of his farting.

Lilly 1:11:01

Well, it's its sleeve as well. Right? So it's like a little jet engine Yeah, fire engine. That explains why his wings are so diminutive. He didn't need them to fly. He just uses them to steer.

Sara 1:11:18

Speaking of dragons unrelated to anything, I just look at the cover and I think Pokemon there is a dragon on the cover of this book.

Lilly 1:11:25

I say not very impressive is not very it just

Sara 1:11:29

I like it's supposed to be the noble dragon. But he he just looks like a kind of, you know, silly Pokemon.

Lilly 1:11:36

It's very cartoonish.

Sara 1:11:38

It was very cartoonish.

Lilly 1:11:39

He does have a little crown though.

Sara 1:11:41

Little cartoonish.

Lilly 1:11:43

And I guess we shouldn't be saying she that's refined out. It's a lady dragon. Although you go through the whole book and they're calling the dragon a he. So?

Sara 1:11:52

Yeah, that's not something that's discovered until the very, very end.

Lilly 1:11:56

Not until we discover that Errol had been doing a mating ritual the whole time? Yes. Well, in between the dragon farts there are some really wonderful sentences, as Pratchett does, you know, scattering his philosophy and with the absolute nonsense that he writes, I thought one of the really, really nice ones was about how humans are actually worse than dragons.

Sara 1:12:22

Yeah, there's the the quote is, there was practically nothing that dragon could do to people that they had not sooner or later. Try it on one another, often with enthusiasm. You have the effrontery to be squeamish it thought it him. But we were dragons. We were supposed to be cruel, cunning, heartless, and terrible. But this much I can tell you, you ape, the great face press even closer. So that wants was staring into the pelvis, the depths of his eyes. We never burned and tortured and ripped one another apart and call it morality. So yeah, dragons are just following their nature. But, you know, humans do bad shit intentionally?

Lilly 1:13:00

Well, couldn't be argument you made that, then that is also our nature? Well,

Sara 1:13:08

I mean, I feel I feel like our nature isn't inherently bad.

Lilly 1:13:12

I don't think so. But from if we're just following that argument, wouldn't that imply that it is also human nature to be mean, and therefore, they are just following their nature? I don't I don't think

Sara 1:13:25

that that it's quite that bad.

Lilly 1:13:28

I don't I haven't found I just found a logic gap. That's all. I don't think that's a practice trying to say.

Sara 1:13:34

I don't think that that was what precious was trying to say, either.

Lilly 1:13:39

Although he does follow up with a quote from vetinari, about how there is no such thing as inherently good or inherently bad people.

Sara 1:13:48

Yeah, I feel like in this book, we see a lot of different points of view, and a lot of different debates on the morality of people and the nature of good and evil. I mean, but that's what makes it interesting, right, is that you have all of these characters who have different different thoughts and different opinions.

Lilly 1:14:06

Yeah, and just have different reactions to the same event that they're all dealing with. And again, that's what attracts Sam Vimes to Sybil. She almost got roasted alive by the dragon, but she still wants to protect it at the end.

Sara 1:14:22

Because she's all about dragons. Yeah, but that is still a

Lilly 1:14:28

depth of sympathy that I don't think I have. I can be all about cats and still not want to protect a cat that was going to murder me.

Sara 1:14:37

I'm not sure. Well, I've never been in a position to have a pug actively tried to murder me. So maybe maybe my thoughts would change. But based on how Mr. Squeak orders my wallet. I don't think that you know, I could I could begrudge them that All right. Well,

Lilly 1:15:00

for today's words are weird. I thought I would just share some of the words that I had to look up from cold comfort. Please do one of them. I actually do think I knew. Well, I guess I didn't. I didn't figure it out at the time of reading, but it was something you had heard before. Well, now reading the definition I, it sounds familiar. But the first one is oleaginous. Hmm. Which apparently means rich in covered with or producing oil, oily or greasy. And I feel like I have heard that as a description word before now that I the definition,

Sara 1:15:42

I think you probably have. I mean, it's not a word that I necessarily could tell you the definition straight off the bat, but I'm certain that I've seen it before. So I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, like you, you recognize the word but not necessarily knew what it meant.

Lilly 1:16:01

And it was used and like, usually, even if I don't know a word from context, I can, like get it. But that was just like, oh boy. The next one was Blum. ONJ, which is apparently just putting,

Sara 1:16:19

hmm, interesting, a specific kind of putting or,

Lilly 1:16:23

yeah, blue maj or Blanc? Monge is like a specific kind of custard.

Sara 1:16:30

I was gonna say it has to be pale. Yeah.

Lilly 1:16:34

There's also suka bind. Soup soup bots. You couldn't super bind whatever. It's just some kind of flowers. I'm not sure if it's real flowers. I guess it is. Yeah. It's like a white trumpet shaped flower.

Sara 1:16:50

Yeah, I was gonna say you can find a definition of it. It's probably a real thing.

Lilly 1:16:55

I couldn't. Oh, and I searched super bind. I just got a bunch of articles. What does suka binder represent in Cold Comfort Farm?

Sara 1:17:07

Well, then,

Lilly 1:17:08

so and then the last one was of attraction. I would never have guessed this in a million years.

Sara 1:17:16

What's the definition of attraction then? Relating

Lilly 1:17:20

to or denoting attractions?

Sara 1:17:26

That's a that's a helpful definition.

Lilly 1:17:29

Well, luckily, there are pictures with it is frogs. Oh, a tailless amphibian of the order a new era of frog or toad?

Sara 1:17:39

Yeah, I'm not scientific enough to to know that. Never would have figured that out. And Nora, how is endurace spelled

Lilly 1:17:47

a n u r a? Okay.

Sara 1:17:50

I asked because there's a character and we'll have time whose name is Nora, A N N? o u r? I think it was just wondering if there was any correlation with frogs, but maybe not.

Lilly 1:18:04

It sounds like that's a scientific group that's no longer used. Hmm. Maybe I'm not actually clicking on any of these links. I'm just trying to divine this from that little sentence snippet you get for the preview, right. Anyway. So yep, little frogs and custards. Those were the things that baffled me in Cold Comfort Farm.

Sara 1:18:30

Well, words are weird.

Lilly 1:18:33

They are. These ones specifically, they do sound fun, though.

Sara 1:18:40

They do. This is true. They do suddenly edginess.

Lilly 1:18:44

I think that's going to be my I'm going to try to slip that into conversation this week.

Sara 1:18:49

I feel like that's, that's the word that I'm most likely to remember. Because I have seen it before. I don't feel like I

Lilly 1:18:57

read a DND monster manual or something.

Sara 1:19:00

It sounds like a very d&d word. It's not one of those words that you see often enough to remember. But you see it often enough that you recognize it when you see it.

Lilly 1:19:11

Or maybe I'll just start calling frogs attractions.

Sara 1:19:16

Do you see enough frogs to use that in your everyday life?

Lilly 1:19:20

There are we have some frogs that live in our backyard. They're very cute.

Sara 1:19:24

Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

Lilly 1:19:27

They come out and say hi, when I water the plants, sometimes they're probably running in terror from me, but I have decided they're coming out to say hi,

Sara 1:19:36

clearly.

1:19:40

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of fiction fans.

Lilly 1:19:44

Come disagree with us. We are on Twitter and Instagram at fiction fans pod. You can also email us at fiction fans pod@gmail.com

1:19:54

If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Apple podcasts and follow us wherever Your Podcast loads

Lilly 1:20:02

Thanks again for listening and may your villains always be defeated bye

1:20:07

bye