Bonus Episode: Our Top Ten Books

Bonus Episode

Release Date: 3/10/2021

In episode 3, we shared our top ten books and then proceeded to talk about them for an extra ten hours (give or take) that didn't fit in the episode.

Music provided by Audio Library Plus; "Travel With Us" by Vendredi

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

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Episode Transcript*

*this transcript is AI generated, please excuse the mess.

Lilly 00:04

And now, what you've all been waiting for. You heard us list our top 10 books and episode three. But were you wondering why we picked them? What we liked about them? Want to hear us complain about each other's choices for 30 minutes? Well, you came to the right place. This is fiction fans, a podcast where we talk about books, and other words, too. But in this bonus episode, it's like 99% books. You're welcome. Okay, we're ready to do some top 10 books, we can't have a conversation about each book.

Sara 00:41

No, we cannot have a conversation about each book. And before we start, I would like to say thank you to Benjamin on Twitter, that's at literature and low five, for suggesting that we discuss our top 10 series or books. I am going to cheat a little bit and say that one series counts as like one spot, which is also kind of doing myself a disservice because I could not figure out what, like I didn't have any difficulties figuring out my top three, and then the other seven I struggled with. So I might not have actually 10 that I would have 10 If a series did not count as one book, or one spot. So

Lilly 01:26

and Jimin is lovely. I see his alerts all the time. I don't actually do Twitter, but I do get our notifications.

Sara 01:32

Yes, I'm the Twitter goblin behind all of our word vomit tweets.

Lilly 01:40

I think first, we should each just run through our titles. You and then me, and then we talk about them. Okay.

Sara 01:51

I think you should go first, because my titles, again, are very nebulous. I also would like to point out that for both of us, I think and you can correct me if I'm wrong here. But this is more of a snapshot of our top 10 books on this date.

Lilly 02:06

This is our genuine selves. As we come to you today. Would you like to hear my top 10 books today?

Sara 02:14

I would like to hear what your top 10 books of the day are.

Lilly 02:20

I didn't write down all of the authors that I've just realized that. Oops. You're gonna get some half and half nonsense, okay. American Gods by Neil Gaiman, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley. Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit by Tolkien, data classism. Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald, helter skelter Cold Comfort Farm A Long Way to a Small Angry Planet. A new bus gates by Tim Powers.

Sara 02:58

Those are good books.

Lilly 03:00

They're my top 10.

Sara 03:02

Some of them I mean, there are some of them that I didn't care for as much. But in general, I think that's very strong list.

Lilly 03:09

They're all good, though. You can't deny that.

Sara 03:13

Some of them have have qualities, which I do not appreciate. But the rest of the world seems to.

Lilly 03:20

You just don't like The Great Gatsby. You haven't even read it? No, you have read it.

Sara 03:24

I haven't read The Great Gatsby. I have read Frankenstein. It didn't much care for it.

Lilly 03:30

Fun fact, I also did not the first time I read it. I think I had to read it two or three times. And then it was like, it hit me. I don't know it hooked into my brain.

Sara 03:41

Okay, so again, with the caveat that it's not really 10. So, the Lord of the Rings series, but I'm including not just the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but like all of the related mythos.

Lilly 03:58

Everything by Tolkien, number one,

Sara 04:01

basically everything by Tolkien, except that that I mean, like he has works that are not part of the Lord of the Rings, everything in Middle Earth by Tolkien everything. Yeah, I do like his non middler stuff, too. But everything by this slot can only be one of them. Yes, yes. So all of the middler stuff. Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. All of the Discworld books by Terry Pratchett and we're not talking about our reasons for liking books yet right? Yeah, not Yeah. Okay. So the in the series by Sherwood Smith and then, over the rim of the world selected letters by Freya Stark and dashing for the post the letters of Patrick Leigh fermor, that's seven. I have three more to go. I don't have another three. I I'd probably if I had to add another three, I would say the Merlin conspiracy by Diana Wynne Jones, and the chronicles of Prydain, which is a series of five books by Lloyd Alexander. That leaves me with one. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, I take it back. I take it back. I totally forgot Andrew Cartmel. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Andrew, the final detective by Andrew Cartmel.

Lilly 05:28

I thought you wrote these down.

Sara 05:31

I did not write these down.

Lilly 05:34

I absolutely did not write that's very clear, because we actually, no joke had a very long conversation about the vital detective before we started recording. And both of us forgot entirely.

Sara 05:50

We did. Yeah. Oops, sorry, final detective.

Lilly 05:56

That was like probably the only book on your list that we actually discussed. Even we did. We did talk about a

Sara 06:03

little bit. Patty Lee farmers book. I didn't mention. But we did talk about his book. So I think we should

Lilly 06:10

start by acknowledging the similarities. There's a lot of overlap. I did not include Discworld on my list, because that felt too cheesy. That was too much. That's that's like 20 books in one slot. I couldn't do it. I'll take it. I was completely willing to include Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit and The Silver really in et cetera, as one slot. So I don't really get to be on a high horse. But do we even have to, like get yet talking? Duh.

Sara 06:43

Yeah. I mean, I think that's pretty self explanatory.

Lilly 06:48

It ought to be anyway, I didn't include Discworld. But I did put good omens on this list.

Sara 06:53

We both did. I mean, it's a fantastic book. Again, I think that there are some similar why I would almost say that there are similarities between it and the private gods, just in the fact that they're both humorous takes on things. I'm not making sense at this point.

Lilly 07:10

It well, any any narrative that deals with the concept of divinity? Yeah, I think you're gonna see some overlap, in that it both of these books, good omens, and the pre of Gods deals with seeking, not necessarily seeking power, but the potential for power. But they

Sara 07:32

also they also do so in a very humorous way. Oh, yeah,

Lilly 07:35

absolutely. Their tones are very similar. Yeah, that's a very good, like, yeah,

Sara 07:39

like, that's, that's what I was trying to call out. They both have very similar tones. Yeah. Well, you said you said it more eloquently than I could.

Lilly 07:47

That irreverent humor? Yeah, absolutely. I think that was that's the extent of our overlap. Only because I refuse to do Discworld.

Sara 08:00

And I did think about adding American Gods to my list, because it's a very good book. But I have to be in a specific mood to read it. And so I think that we had slightly different criteria for what constitutes as our top 10. That's what I was going

Lilly 08:13

to transition to. Yeah. So my criteria was, I think maybe books that have affected me more than anything, books that I have read, and that I can point out pieces of my psyche where I'm like, Yeah, that's where this came from. But for example, Helter Skelter. I read once that I'm never going to read that book again. Because that's like 500 pages of nonfiction written by a lawyer, and once is enough. But the fact that I read 500 pages written by a lawyer, I think shows I'm not someone who wants I started book, I have to finish it. I finished it because it was I, on the

Sara 08:59

other hand, absolutely do have to finish the book when I started, but I also like reading more academic texts, as I think as evidenced by the inclusion of first arc and popularly from around

Lilly 09:10

there. Yeah, we both had to nonfiction pieces, right?

Sara 09:13

Yes, I think that I think that those two are the only ones that I included. And my basis for this list was really like, like books, books that I reread and enjoy reading. Well, that's not fair. Because I am, I am a chronic reader. So most of the books that I own, I enjoy rereading. But these were books that I go to again and again and again, or would go to again and again and again, fresh, dark and heavy Lee firmer, I've only read once at this point. And I would almost call them comfort reads. So not necessarily things that I can trace back aspects of my psyche too. So yeah, just different different methodologies and selecting our lists. Yeah, it

Lilly 09:58

feels like you Pick two books that you would would like to reread, and enjoy rereading, whereas I picked books that when I read them, they left me with a moment. That is to say, like I said Frankenstein. I did not like it right away. I read Dracula and Frankenstein around the same time, because I was coming at it from a horror movie perspective. But those are two extremely different books. I do like Dracula, but clearly not hit my top 10.

Sara 10:36

Neither of those books I would consider anywhere near my top 10.

Lilly 10:40

Yes, fine. Frankenstein is just in a in a completely different league, from Dracula. But I mean, I read it in three different classes, and then also an independent study that was technically about romantic poets. But I worked Frankenstein into it anyway, because by then I was in its clutches. So I think maybe I'm just into Frankenstein.

Sara 11:08

I think clearly, you're just into Frankenstein.

Lilly 11:11

I did pick these books on their own merits. So even though I love Mary Shelley, and I love jerte, which is how I have decided to call Jr Tolkien. shirt. I did not pick Frankenstein, because Mary Shelley was an excellent person who challenged Percy Shelley, her husband, to create better literature all around and came from a legacy of Mary Wollstonecraft, who wrote one of the earliest feminist works. All of that's just gravy. A Frankenstein is also a great book.

Sara 11:52

And see there again, we differ in methodology, because some of the books that I chose are definitely not necessarily because of their merits as a book in and of themselves. But because of my associations with the book.

Lilly 12:08

I will say, Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons is a sort of parody. It's a it's a parody from the 1930s.

Sara 12:20

That a parody of what Frankenstein?

Lilly 12:23

No, no, sorry. Um, Wikipedia says, rural life, romanticized stories of rural life popular at the time, but read it similar. So Cold Comfort Farm and The Great Gatsby are sort of Linked in this way. Because the Great Gatsby is the the tragic, beautiful, rich people life. And then Cold Comfort Farm is the tragic, beautiful, rich person, thinking that she's going to change a farm and then realizing that that's not how farms work. And then she flies away in a helicopter. That's the whole book. It was published in 1932. It's the best thing I've ever read.

Sara 13:14

I mean, that does sound quite fun.

Lilly 13:17

It's fantastic. The book has or not the book. The book is fantastic. The movie has Kate Beckinsale in it. So that's all you need to know. I saw the movie first. But I saw the movie when I was 15. I was extremely this is this is one of those books that

Sara 13:37

young and impressionable. Oh, I

Lilly 13:40

get a ha I love the 20s. And I also love the Great Gatsby. Both of that is because of cold comfort. Like it, it's definitely influenced me in some very fundamental ways. But it's just it's so funny. Like it's it's weird, funny, in a way that I clearly favor. You didn't put American Gods on your list, which is fine. I understand.

Sara 14:11

I didn't I mean, I did consider it because it's a very good book. But again, just going by my criteria or going by how I chose my books, it didn't really fit because it's a book that I enjoy, and I do reread, but it's not a book that I have to be in the right mind to reread it.

Lilly 14:30

I don't think I picked any comfort books. Well, Lord of the Rings is a comfort book.

Sara 14:35

Yeah, basically, basically

Lilly 14:36

all of my books are comfort books. I don't think any of my books make me feel like everything's wonderful. I don't know

Sara 14:43

if I mean my books don't necessarily make me feel like everything's wonderful but I'm defining comfort book as a book that I go to when I am either in a reading slump or not feeling well. Like for example, Diana Wynne Jones I was very very ill with flew a number of years ago, I was in college doing study abroad. I came down with the flu, super sick for like two and a half weeks. And all I wanted to do was read Diana Wynne Jones. That was the that was the only thing that I wanted to do. That was the only thing that made me feel better.

Lilly 15:19

Can we clarify Diana Wynne Jones is house Moving Castle

Sara 15:23

house Moving Castle She's the author of I mean, I did say that, that the Merlin conspiracy was written by Diana Wynne Jones. Okay.

Lilly 15:30

I feel like house Moving Castle maybe has more broad recognition.

Sara 15:34

Possibly. It has name recognition, but that name recognition does not coincide with Diana Wynne Jones because everyone knows it for me Ozaki film. Well, that's why you should take this opportunity. They don't realize Yeah, but But I also think that house Moving Castle is not our best work.

Lilly 15:51

Interesting that that's actually one of the only I read that. I read that book it our cousins, our mutual cousins house is plucked that shit off the shelf and read it. And my mind was blown. And it was so good. Calcifer is amazing. Have

Sara 16:08

you already seen the movie at that point?

Lilly 16:10

No. I was young. I was very young and might not even have been out. I came out.

Sara 16:16

Yeah, I didn't read I got I came to Diana Wynne Jones as a young child. Well, young child, I was maybe, I don't know 10 or 11 or so when I discovered her. But I it was not how I was moving Castle when I first read it was for Crystal Mansi series. And I so I read the crystal bouncy books. I read the Merlin conspiracy. And the prequel to it which is deep secret, I believe. I think deep secret is the prequel and not the Merlin conspiracy is the sequel. I'm not willing to bet money on that. But so I read a bunch of her of her work. I have not read everything but what she's done. I would like to at some point, but she was a very prolific author.

Lilly 16:59

So the Miyazaki film, Google is saying came out in 2004. But so

Sara 17:05

I watched I watched the film before I ever read house Moving Castle as a book, even though I was already familiar with Diana Wynne Jones. Yeah. And I like house Moving Castle. And I enjoy the two books that come after it in the series. Because it's a trilogy of books, although the latter two books do not have really have much in common. I mean, how will and so if you don't show up, really, at all until the very end, I liked the third book quite a lot. House houses many ways. The second one is about her sister. The second book is not really about any I mean, the second book is about someone completely unrelated. How will and Sophie come in and come in at the very end? Clearly, I read this

Lilly 17:53

when I was 11. So

Sara 17:55

yeah, the second book, I think it's the weakest of the trilogy. I do quite enjoy book three, which is houses many ways. The second book is castles in the air. But to go back to my very original point of house Moving Castle is an excellent book. It's not my favorite of her books.

Lilly 18:17

So you, it sounds like you made this list based on comfort reads books that you gravitate towards.

Sara 18:28

Yeah. And books that I have good associations with?

Lilly 18:32

Absolutely. I mean, Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, are orbs, obviously, that for like, for both of us, I think. Yeah, that's definitely where we overlapped in many ways.

Sara 18:45

Yeah. Would you call good omens for yourself a comfort read?

Lilly 18:49

I don't read it that often.

Sara 18:50

Interesting. Are you so I know. Like I said, I like you though about me. Obviously. I've reread things constantly. But you're not really a reader.

Lilly 19:01

It depends on the book. I have read good omens multiple times. Right, which is a comment on good omens. That's not the type of reader that I am. Yeah. I have read. Like I said Frankenstein, several times. And that's why it's one of my favorite ones now. Stockholm Syndrome, that's basically what it is. American Gods by Neil Gaiman is on my list, because every time I read it, I have gotten something new from it.

Sara 19:34

It's really good at that. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's,

Lilly 19:37

it's so thoughtful and complex. There's a lot of depth to it. Yes. And I really enjoy that about it. I've read it, I think, more than six times, which is not relevant, except that I don't normally reread books that often. Yeah,

Sara 19:58

I mean, I think it's a statement that you as a self proclaimed non reader has reread that book six times. Like that's actually quite a lot for someone who normally reads books once it is like,

Lilly 20:11

Lord of the Rings. I reread fairly often because it's Lord of the Rings. We're not going to argue about how good it is until we have an entire episode to have space to do so.

Sara 20:22

Which I would like to do at some point. Oh, yes.

Lilly 20:25

I mean, it's common, don't you worry. Yes, it definitely is. But then you get like, like I said, Helter Skelter, which is to clarify, that's a nonfiction book written by the prosecuting lawyer who prosecuted Charles Manson. So it's a it's a true crime nonfiction book. And the version that I read, did have some amendments, because obviously, it's been a while, but it was so very good. I have definitely like, well, I've listened to enough True Crime podcasts that I'm familiar with, you know, the Manson family, and Charles Manson, and all of that garbage, but actually reading about it from the perspective of the person who prosecuted him and sent him to prison was, it was very good, was fascinating. His perspective I didn't always agree with but I think overall, he, he tried to be impartial. And it mostly worked. Just like laying out the information that he had.

Sara 21:41

What would you say your favorite aspect of it was then,

Lilly 21:44

I think the angle on a cultural event? Because I think most people are familiar with the concept of Charles Manson. I think that's fair to say. You know, he, he started a cult, the Charles Manson, Charles family, he started the Manson family with a bunch of underage girls, which we're not going to get into right now. And then these girls committed very brutal murders. And is that because of him, was like did should he be held responsible for the murders? These are, this is an exploration. These are questions that his prosecuting lawyer had to explore to argue that he should be held responsible. I did not include the Girls by Emma Klein, in my list, but that is a I hate to call it historical fiction. It's it's a novel from the perspective of an adult woman who in her youth was in. We're gonna say, The Manson cult. It technically wasn't, but it clearly was, right. Yeah. I actually really love the way that that novel straddled history and fiction. They like she was very clearly saying, like, we're talking about Charles Manson, but we're not bothering ourselves with the details. And I appreciate it that. Like I said, That's not on this list, but it was a very good book. helter skelter is on this list, because I, I'm not a big nonfiction reader. And despite that, this extremely long, extremely dense book, kept my interest the entire time, and it deserves all of the kudos for that.

Sara 23:56

I mean, I would, I would say that it sounds like an interesting book. It does sound like an interesting book. It also sounds like a book that I would never read ever. But

Lilly 24:05

it's a very good book. All of the true crime podcasts, use it as a resource, just like go. There's 1000 Yeah,

Sara 24:15

that's probably quite true.

Lilly 24:19

The Long Way to a Small Angry Planet. I am going to tie you down and force you to read

Sara 24:25

that's already on our calendar. Yeah.

Lilly 24:29

Why do you think I started this podcast to make you read that book?

Sara 24:34

We were talking about because it's part of a quartet, isn't it?

Lilly 24:38

I don't know. When I read it. I think the sequel had just barely come out. So

Sara 24:43

yeah, I looked it up when we first started talking about it. A while back. I think I looked it up and I I believe that there are four parts to the overall series.

Lilly 24:56

I've only read the first one but Oh, There's a line where Star Trek is critiqued. It might be from Rick and Morty. I don't actually remember the origin of this joke. Aliens and Star Trek are just humans with shit on their forehead. Yeah, cuz that's what they are. There's humans. Yeah. The aliens in A Long Way to a Small Angry Planet are not. She truly explores different cultures in such a deep and thoughtful way. I just, I'm so excited to read the rest of them. It was ya

Sara 25:44

know, what what you have said about it makes me very excited to read because I haven't obviously, I haven't read the first book at all. And I clearly have not read the rest of them either. But what you have said about it makes me very excited to discuss it with you to read it and discuss it with you

Lilly 26:01

can't wait. Do you have any other I mean, we, I'm not gonna go over data, close them again. It's fascinating.

Sara 26:09

We talked about it. Yeah, we did talk about it already in the first episode

Lilly 26:14

OKCupid data. That's the whole book.

Sara 26:18

If you want to hear Lily's thoughts and more details, go listen to our first episode.

Lilly 26:23

Maybe we'll do it in an in a whole thing. And I had talked about like, it would,

Sara 26:28

it would be interesting because I want to read it too. I mean, like I like nonfiction, sort of more academic texts. I've read a decent amount of it. And I think the idea of looking at the data behind online dating would just be fascinating. So my, some of my books, I mean, you you have very good, deep thoughts about why your books deserve to be on your list. Some of my books are, well, for example, the vinyl detective series by Andrew Cartmel is a series. It's a solid series like it's it's an enjoyable, sort of crime Mystery Novel series. It's good and enjoyable. And I liked the characters. And the main character talks about cooking a lot. And I always get hungry when reading those books. But I included them on my list, when I remember to include them on my list, mostly because I just Andrew Cartmel is such a nice guy. And he's been very nice to me in particular, and has gone out of out of his way to get me books like we have met him, he has attended as a guest, the doctor who convention that Lily and I go to every year, one of those years that he was there, he brought his final detective books for sale. And he sat at his table in the dealer's Hall selling them. And I meant to go and buy a copy on the convention runs Friday through Sunday. And I meant to go and buy copy on Friday or Saturday, but just never got around to it. So by the time I went there on Sunday, he was all sold out. And he said, Well, you know, shoot me a message via Facebook, and we'll see what we can do to get you some signed copies. And it eventually ended up that he Well, a he went out of his way to send me copies to mail me copies. And then when he had a new book coming out, and I just happened to be in the UK at the time, like we actually met up and he, like, bought me tea at a cafe and I got signed, we had a book handover, so he's just a really nice guy. I can't divorce my feelings of appreciation for him as a person from like, my feelings for the series.

Lilly 28:47

That's so valid, though. Yeah, honestly, the reason why Tamara Pierce is not on this list for me, despite being like worshiping her through my entire childhood is that I was kind of underwhelmed when I got my book signed by her. So she, I brought up a book. And I said, Hi, I love your work. And she said, Oh, thanks. And then it my book. She wrote girl's rule. And I was just like, what

Sara 29:20

I mean, I feel sympathy.

Lilly 29:22

Well, of course. Well, as an adult, I'm not mad about that. I still have the book she signed. Like I still love her work,

Sara 29:32

but as a kid, but as an 11 or 12 year old. Yeah, I

Lilly 29:35

asked my parents. How did she know I thought that? And they tried to answer my question. They tried really hard. But the answer was it was generic.

Sara 29:49

Yeah.

Lilly 29:50

And that's, that's fine. That's not a problem. But that's definitely like an interaction that has colored my opinion.

Sara 30:00

I mean those those kinds of impressions they last

Lilly 30:03

but That's so unfair to her. It is it is a little a young, a young girl who likes her books and so she wrote girls rule like that should be fine. That yeah, like I don't want anyone to think that I was shit talking to her appears because I don't know never do that

Sara 30:22

we love and respect more appears in these households

Lilly 30:24

forever forever

Sara 30:28

but I do understand what you're saying.

30:30

Yeah I

Lilly 30:30

have personal experience with an author just means so much to you forever. It really does. agree with any of our choices. disagree with them. We'd love to hear your thoughts. You can reach out to us on most social media platforms at fiction fans pod or email us at fiction fans pod@gmail.com Hope you enjoyed the episode and look forward to seeing you next time. Bye