Author Interview: Noise Floor by Andrew Cartmel
- Fiction Fans
- Apr 10, 2024
- 40 min read
Updated: Jun 26
Episode 135
Release Date: April 10, 2024
Your hosts are joined by Andrew Cartmel to talk about "Noise Floor," the most recent addition to his Vinyl Detective series. They discuss keeping an ongoing series fresh, managing overlapping storylines, and poly relationship dynamics. They also go over the inherent (or not so much) personality traits of musical genres, and the mystery surrounding Princess Seitan.
Find more from Andrew:
Find us on discord: https://discord.gg/dpNHTWVu6b or support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/fictionfanspod
Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:
- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris” - Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
Episode Transcript*
*this transcript is AI generated, please excuse the mess.
Lilly: 0:04
Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words, too. I'm Lily.
Sara: 0:09
And I'm Sarah, and we are delighted to welcome back Andrew Cartmell onto the podcast to talk about the latest vinyl detective novel, Noise Floor.
Andrew: 0:17
You're not as delighted as I am.
Lilly: 0:20
Well, before we begin discussing this excellent book, let's start with something great that happened recently.
Sara: 0:26
My great thing is that I spent the morning cleaning my house, which was actually really nice. Like, it's just a lot of little things that I'd been intending to do for a while. And I had the opportunity to finally do them.
Lilly: 0:39
Wonderful. I just feel so much better in a clean space.
Sara: 0:43
Yeah. Like it just, those are things off my plate. I can now enjoy a more clean house. I'm not going to say a clean house because I have pugs, but it's cleaner.
Lilly: 0:53
Andrew?
Andrew: 0:53
Well, There's a richness of choice. I'm going to say two things. I've just written a new play and It went down really well. It's just, we had a table read of it. So that's, when I say it went down really well, I don't mean like there was cheers and curtain calls. Just, it's the first step in a long journey. It was a very good first step. But on a different level, I discovered this book, which I really love. I just found an old paperback of it, but through a strange coincidence, I read, I thought this, when I get a book I really love, I want to get a nice permanent edition to add to my library. So, yeah. So I went and looked online, of course, and it is a very scarce book. There's only half a dozen copies listed. And one of them was a first edition in pretty good shape, more expensive than I wanted it to be, but signed by the author, but inscribed, you know, so that they'd signed it to, to somebody, but I don't, I don't mind that. That's fine. And that's good. It was signed to Andrew.
Sara: 1:43
Oh, that's perfect!
Andrew: 1:44
So it was just. I thought, that's such a cool, I'm getting a little bit of goosebumps now just telling you guys about it, but at the time it was like, whoa, so it was extraordinary. So, uh, that was nice, and the book's now, when I ordered the book, because of the sort of person I am, I thought, oh, they'll probably lose it in the post. But, no, they didn't, and it's sitting on, in my coffee table now, and it's just Because the author's no longer with us, I just kind of felt like he was reaching his hand out to me. And it was wonderful. It's just really nice. And it's such a great book. So anyway, that's a long answer to a short question.
Lilly: 2:16
Well, which book is it?
Andrew: 2:17
Well it is related to plays, so okay, this is going to get even longer. I have worked with two directors, more than two, but two that I really like, in doing my plays. And one of them is a guy called Conrad Blakemore. And he's the son of a very famous theater director called Michael Blakemore. And the other one is Jenny Eastop, who used to be Michael Blakemore's assistant. So there's a, oh, they're both tightly related to Michael Blakemore. And I knew that Michael Blakemore had done some writing, because he'd written like a memoir about working in the theater. So, you know, but he also wrote a novel. And I found this novel out, like not even inside a shop, but lying in a box outside a second, what we call a, Charity shop, you call it, a thrift store. And I was lying in the box outside, like it was as though it was waiting for me. Well, it's beyond that, because I was in this place because we were going to visit a theater to ask them if they'd put on my play. And so while we were waiting for our meeting, I was coming down and I walked to this thrift store, which is an Oxfam bookshop. And there's a box of books outside, and on top was this Next season, a novel by Michael Blakemore. I didn't know he wrote a novel. I picked it up and it looked really good. So I got the book and I read it and it's like, it's just this brilliantly written novel, but phenomenally insightful about the process of acting because he was an actor. I didn't know this before, for like 15 years before he became a director, he was acting. So about the process of acting and directing and just making plays. And it's this incredible Readable, rich source of insights into something that obviously fascinates me at the moment, because although I'm a novelist, I'm also a playwright and the playwriting thing is more new to me. And it was just this treasure trove. But additionally, it's an incredibly well written novel. Like he just writes beautifully. His characters are great. And he could have been a novelist. Well, he is a novelist, but he mostly concentrated on doing plays. Well, I'll show you. It's called Next Season by Michael Blakemore. It's the full thing. Like, here's the copy I found outside the charity shop, and it's got a terrible, it's got a terrible cover. This is not a video podcast, but it's like they've got the title twice and the author's name twice, not realizing that the more that, like, it's only half as much impact if you do it twice. It's, it's just, I think that Lily and Sarah can see why they put it on twice. It's because it's like a theater marquee. I A double theater marquee. So I suppose on some level it makes sense, but it's just stupid. So it's a terribly designed book, but here's the original first edition and I can't quite believe it as I open this book myself, but it's there. It's Michael Blakemore to Andrew. It's just so lovely. And the thing is while I was reading the book, I felt such a sense of kinship with him, not just because of the brilliance of his insights, but because it's like, well, he's no longer with us, but I know Conrad and Jenny very well, so I felt that this was a man who's quite close to me. I did meet him once, but sort of briefly in passing kind of thing. And I just felt very, very close to him and I felt really close to him after I found this copy of the book. I really felt like it was because of, as I say, I found. That first copy was just lying on top of a pile of books outside a store. So the whole thing is very serendipitous. And I'm more of a scientific kind of guy than a superstition kind of guy. But on the other hand, if it feels like the cosmos is trying to tell you something, you should listen.
Lilly: 5:34
Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew: 5:36
But if anybody as a result of this wants to read a novel called Next Season by Michael Blakemore, it is an incredible lost novel. It just is. Outstandingly good. And you don't have to be even into the theater, you just have to be interested in human beings and human behavior to read it. It's such an exquisitely written, well observed, psychologically acute, compelling story.
Sara: 5:57
Well, it's definitely going on my TBR, that's for sure.
Andrew: 6:01
Well, after a sales pitch like that, how could it not? But if you're disappointed, I'll give you your money back.
Lilly: 6:07
Well, it sounds like you also answered if you've read anything good lately.
Andrew: 6:11
Oh, I didn't realize I was trampling like a rogue elephant, asking questions, but I'm kind of glad that I did. So that worked out well,
Lilly: 6:18
I love that your answer to something great that happened is that you've read something good lately. That's perfect.
Sara: 6:24
It is.
Lilly: 6:25
My good thing is that We are planning some house construction, minor house construction this summer, that we need to get approved by the city. It's a whole thing. We're under an airplane flight path, which means there's like a ton of extra rules, including what at first we thought meant we had to pour 8 feet 6 inch thick concrete walls. at one point, just because of the way that our yard is, like, has a hill. But we emailed the city and said, please, can we not do that? And they said, yeah, that's fine. So my good thing is that we've gotten around that, we think.
Andrew: 7:02
that's a really good thing.
Lilly: 7:03
Yeah. Was not looking forward to that part of the project. What is everyone drinking this wonderful day? It's a little bit earlier in the day for me, so I have some decaf coffee.
Andrew: 7:13
Well, I've got a new answer to that question because I remember it was cacao shell tea last time. Yeah. Well, which I still recommend as an interesting and unusual beverage. But I'm a complete sucker for these things, if they're fact based, that such and such is good for you, right? And it turns out green tea, apparently, is good for you, like, because I don't drink tea or coffee. So I've been trying green tea, and I really like it. Plus, the thing is, because I don't drink tea or coffee, my body is a holy temple that's Caffeine has never entered it. Although green tea is weaker than black tea and much weaker than coffee in terms of caffeine, it does have some caffeine in it. So when I first took it out, it's like, I was like Walter White taking crystal meth. It's incredible. I thought, whoa, this is great. What a trip. What a rush. But so I'm now having several cups of green tea a day and enjoying the ritual and enjoying the caffeine hit and just, Also, my mum and dad, well mostly my mum used to be a tea drinker, so I kind of feel a certain sense of communion with her as I make a cup of tea. And making a cup of tea is something that I never used to do, but now that it's kind of like a hipster health thing, I'm willing to consider it, right?
Sara: 8:27
I am also drinking green tea. So,
Andrew: 8:29
Oh, great.
Sara: 8:31
excellent taste in tea.
Andrew: 8:33
There's a myriad of, like, there isn't just green tea, like, there's all these, there's as many different kinds as there are people looking for it, probably. So I, I chose one that's called Jade Tips, which is supposed to have a special, delightful, subtle flavor. And it's nice. It's nice. Plus it was relatively inexpensive, so that was Almond, that was the flavor. It's a subtle almond flavor. I'm not sure it, it does, but it's, it's certainly fun to drink.
Lilly: 8:58
Well, Sarah, we, Sarah and I spoke yesterday, so I suspect the answer to, have you read anything in the last 12 hours?
Sara: 9:07
actually do have an answer to this,
Lilly: 9:09
Hey,
Sara: 9:09
but it's not because I read it in the last 12 hours, it's because I had multiple answers yesterday and only gave one of them.
Lilly: 9:15
you overachiever.
Sara: 9:17
So it was a novella titled On the English Approach to the Study of History by E. Saxe, and it was, I think I would classify it as weird academia rather than Dark academia. It is very much academic in the sense that it's about two kind of, well, there's a woman who has just received her PhD from Glasgow in history, and she's invited to speak at a conference about history. And it ends with Queen Elizabeth, like, flying off as a beetle, a giant beetle thing. So, very odd.
Andrew: 9:58
Is it kind of magical realist?
Sara: 10:00
Um, no, I would say it's definitely fantasy, because there's this premise that John Dee has turned historical figures immortal, and the end result is them being giant beetle like things.
Andrew: 10:14
John Dee, the Crystal Gazer, used to live just up the road in Mortlake, like perhaps a 10 minute walk from where I am now.
Sara: 10:21
Interesting. So, yeah, that was it. That's what I read. It was weird. I liked it, but it was weird.
Lilly: 10:28
Well, I finished. Noise floor. by Andrew Cartmell last night.
Andrew: 10:31
Thank you. Thank you both very much. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm anticipating a bit here, but thank you.
Lilly: 10:37
How do your murder mystery novels always make me so hungry?
Andrew: 10:42
Ah, well, this one is the great thing about this one, about the hunger aspect of it is that there's a very good recipe in this one.
Sara: 10:49
I want the Vinyl Detective Cookbook. I think I've said this before, but like I would, I'm not going to say kill. I would not kill for a Vinyl Detective Cookbook, but I would really, really like one.
Andrew: 11:00
I'm, I'm certainly up for the idea. I think we need a few more recipes. I mean, I could obviously not limit it to recipes that have actually occurred in the book. I just could just supplement it. The more overlap there is with stuff that's actually appeared in the novel would be better, But I wanted to actually visit the scene where they're invited. to the house cold noise floor and they have a grand dinner. Is that what, is that what made you hungry?
Lilly: 11:22
It was, it was the mac and cheese. So
Andrew: 11:27
cheese is, is great and it's a wonderful recipe. I should have given credit because I got it from New Scientist Magazine because they're talking about the science of creating a white sauce without having to make a white sauce because the pasta sheds its own starch, which provides the thickening, all the thickening you need. So yeah, told me that I'd have to make a white sauce and I'm your man. And I, I've got some good reactions on social media to that recipe. Two or three people have been in touch, and one of them said they liked how slyly I inserted it, because he just says it in a couple lines of dialogue. It gives you the recipe really quick, because I thought, I can't dwell on this. I've just got to do it really fast, and then wait and see if my editors upbraid me for it. They didn't, so I got away with it. Yay.
Sara: 12:10
Well, it felt very true to the series because it's not the first book where you've inserted a recipe. I know, I can't remember which one it was. It might've been Low Action where I am pretty sure that I made something From,
Andrew: 12:23
Oh, I wonder what the, I forgot what I included in that. But it was, yeah, I think I did include something in that one. Good for me.
Sara: 12:32
yeah, it was like green beans or pasta or something.
Andrew: 12:36
that's a wonderful recipe. Yeah. It's got a really kind of good taste to it. I haven't done it for a while. I'll have to do that again.
Sara: 12:42
it was excellent. I remember enjoying it. So I'm looking forward to trying this mac and cheese recipe.
Andrew: 12:46
Oh, it's, listen, it's just so easy and so delicious. The crucial thing is, use a good quality mature cheddar. I mean, the better the cheddar is, the better the ultimate flavor is because that's where all the flavor emanates from. The rest is just sort of creamy sauce, which is nice enough, but it's bland.
Lilly: 13:01
does that mean that the recipes that you're using in these books are ones that you personally use or are they recipes that you've looked up? for the book.
Andrew: 13:10
The answer is that they're always my own favorite recipes. But that banquet that I was just asking you about was an exception. I just, I wanted really elaborate recipes for that because the woman behind it is sort of like cooking is her thing. So that was invented. In fact, I might've done a bit of research, but mostly I just made stuff up outta my head. Things that were much more elaborate than I would ever do. But that's, I think that's probably the only exception. Uh, any recipe that's given, anything that's described in detail will be something that I cook regularly, otherwise.
Lilly: 13:39
That follows because while we see that meal and that amazing banquet, we aren't actually given, like, the recipe or the cooking process for those things, right? It's the vinyl detective whose head we get.
Andrew: 13:49
Yeah, because he's a bit of a foodie and, you know, his girlfriend appreciates and his friends, they all appreciate that. And I like including it and it seems that people respond to it. Plus it's a very kind of cozy crime type thing.
Sara: 14:01
So you've now written seven books in this series. And you managed to keep every book fresh and fun. Has it gotten any harder to come up with these, like, unique situations and peril to put The Vinyl Detective in?
Andrew: 14:15
No, and that shouldn't ever really, it needn't ever be a problem. I've probably spoken to you guys before about the writer. I really admire John D. McDonald, American crime writer, and his Travis McGee series, which I think ran 21 books. Something like that. And only ended because he died. There was no decline in quality. I mean, they just kept getting, if anything, getting better, but also there was no repetition. They were very different, you know? And so that's really useful to know because it's an example, an exemplar to try and live up to so that it's certainly possible. There have been other crime series that I've read, and I don't know if I've ever mentioned this, but I don't want to cite The series, because I think it's always bad form to knock another writer, but I was really enjoying the series of crime novels. Then I read one that was a dud and I sort of thought, oh, well, everybody has an off day. Then I read another one that was a dud and I never got back on the merry go round after that. I just, and I really, I tell you what I felt, I felt betrayed. I just felt that If you're going to start writing a series of novels, you owe it to the reader to give it your best shot every time. And I learned a very valuable lesson that you can't afford to let your readers down because otherwise they'll, they will leave your series and that's fair enough. So I'm constantly aware of that, but I don't really think it's a problem. The problems might be if I'm really busy finding time to actually sit down and write the novel. But in terms of making it different or fresh, that shouldn't be the problem, and I'm hoping it won't be.
Sara: 15:43
Certainly hasn't been a problem to date, so you're on the right track.
Lilly: 15:48
In the Vinyl Detective series, we've met musicians from several different musical genres, and I was wondering if there was any relation between the quirks and personalities of these musicians and the genre of music that they make.
Andrew: 16:04
Uh, I think not. I mean, one might expect like if somebody was at Heavy Rock, there'd, you know, there'd be a bit of a headbanger, but I think you'll find that there's sort of headbangers in every genre. I mean, I have been contemplating, not in the near term, but eventually writing a book about classical music or opera or something like that, and I'm sure that those people will be just as extravagant and, you know, pig headed and potentially, you know, violent as, as any of the other characters and the characters from any other musical genre. So there's not a direct correlation, I don't think.
Lilly: 16:39
Rock stars are not limited to rock.
Andrew: 16:41
That's a very good point. Yeah. Divas aren't limited to the opera, are they?
Sara: 16:45
This is not a question, but the references to Dominic Glynn in this book made me happy, particularly because he was at Gallifrey One this year, so it felt very, like, perfect timing.
Andrew: 16:56
Uh, that's wonderful. And I, uh, Dominic's been very, obviously I did this with his permission, although I didn't run it past him. Like I wrote him into the book just peripherally, he's on at a concert, so we don't actually meet him. But then I thought, Oh, I didn't actually, like, he sort of knew what I was up to, but I hadn't specifically run the text past him and he was perfectly happy with it. And the wonderful thing about Dominic was we had a long telephone conversation. Before I wrote the book, just with him reminiscing about what it was like on the rave scene in the late 90s. And it was incredibly valuable because even though not everything made its way into the book, the feel definitely did. And that was, that was priceless for me.
Lilly: 17:37
Near the beginning of this book, there is a character who is described as having a yokel twang, and I realized very quickly that the mental image I had was probably not what the vinyl detective was describing. Oh,
Andrew: 17:52
of a hillbilly image, then do, do you know that there's a, in Simp the Simpsons, there's a character who's the Slack, George Yokel. So that, that might have been what I had in mind. I'm not sure what you had in mind. I believe it Wastler who's doing this and, and he's, he's sort of like the Shakespearean clown in, in these stories that he, he's allowed to mark everybody and, and all of our other characters disapprove of him for saying things like that. So he is, he is allowed to sort of say the unsayable and mention the unmentionable.'cause that's. Pretty much his function in the books.
Lilly: 18:25
Tinkler had a hard time in this one.
Andrew: 18:27
Yeah. I assume you mean because of Horatio and his presence.
Lilly: 18:31
he's a romantic rival, sort of.
Andrew: 18:36
He wishes.
Lilly: 18:37
Yeah.
Andrew: 18:39
Now we must return to Horatio in the spoiler section.
Lilly: 18:43
Absolutely.
Sara: 18:44
We will be returning to Horatio in the spoiler section, never fear. One thing that I noticed in this book is, and correct me if I'm wrong, Andrew, but the framing for the final detective's love of music equipment seemed to change just a little bit. He has a comment in this book where he refers to himself as being a little on the spectrum, and I don't think that's really been brought up
Andrew: 19:05
Well, I think what, what he's referring to there is anybody,
Sara: 19:09
to
Andrew: 19:09
I used to work in hi fi magazines, which is sort of the thing we're talking about, audiophiles. And it's not limited to being an audiophile, but that sort of obsessive concern with the details of technology, even though it's in pursuit of a really good cause, which is listening to beautiful music is, um, in England, we'd call that train spotting. And in America, it would be like. collecting sports statistics. And it's, people don't literally mean that, but they're using that as a disparaging comparison, if that makes sense. So that's sort of what he's talking about. I don't think he was trying to get into a rich discussion of neural diversity. I think he was just sort of alluding to the fact that like other men, and it is usually men who are obsessed with the details of technology. He's, he was a bit of a, what we'd call a train spotter.
Lilly: 19:59
And Nevada puts up with it, as she always does.
Andrew: 20:03
Well, they've got an interesting relationship. I mean, he's a very good cook and he makes her laugh. And so it's not like, he's not sort of a reprehensible OCD, you know, type. And I just, I like the way they sort of compliment each other. Compliment with an E. Do you know what I mean?
Lilly: 20:20
Absolutely. The moment where that line is used is when he's off having a conversation with their friend that she's not interested in, is what I was referring to.
Andrew: 20:29
Oh, is that when he's talking to Hugh? Yeah. Yeah, well. Because they're deep into the details of turntables. And that's, it's true. And like, uh, we, we always go to, they're talking about the counterweight you use on the SME arm, which listen, is of considerable interest. If you're interested in that kind of thing. But I mean, the extent of Nevada's interest in that is it would be like, oh, the music's sounding really good now. Did you change something? But you know, she wouldn't be bothered particularly about what it was that, not that she'd be in any way incapable of assimilating the knowledge of the change. It's just that that's not really where her interest lies, not least because in their partnership. He takes care of that side of things, just like he takes care of the cooking,
Lilly: 21:12
absolutely. And she takes care of the wine
Andrew: 21:16
takes care of the wine. And also there was a lengthy sequence that I cut from this book, because it needed a bit of cutting, but where they go to that big dinner party, I mentioned, where she chooses his outfit. And we went into detail about all the clothing he's wearing and What a bargain she got with each item of clothing. And it was nice, and it was interesting, it was fun, it was character stuff, but it just slowed things down. So that will probably end up, something like that will end up in another book. But again, that's her area of responsibility. She understands fashion and clothing.
Sara: 21:43
Well, and one of the things I appreciate about the relationship as it's developed through the books is that they each understand that, yeah, the other person has these areas that I don't particularly care about, but I'm happy that they're happy with them. And that's what a healthy relationship should look like.
Andrew: 22:02
I think, I think so. Unless you, you know, it's not impossible that people are on the same page about everything. And that, I'm sure that relationships can work like that too. But it's, must be few and far between.
Sara: 22:14
It's been a while since we've read the previous Final Detective book, so I can't remember specifically, but is this the first time where you've explicitly noted down which book's specific references come from? Because there are a couple of references to previous books.
Andrew: 22:30
Absolutely, because in this one, it, as I was writing it, I realized that there's quite a rich vein of references with other books. And I thought it was actually worth annotating this, and that the turning point for that was when they went to this little village called Nuttalich, and they meet the vicar. I suddenly thought, Oh, you know what? He could be the same Vicar from The Runout Group. And I thought, Oh, yeah, why not? He's just changed his parish. They'd say that, they actually explain that, but they don't say he appeared in the book called, because they don't think they're living in a series of books. They think they're living in the real world, these characters. So it fell to me. to do that. Because I thought it might be like a little bonus thing in the uh, acknowledgements at the end of the book to mention that. And also because there was no, and there were, I hope will increasingly be overlaps with the paperback sleuth. So I suppose in one sense it's a, a cynical ploy to try and get people, in case they're not reading both series, to read both series. Or a useful knowledge base if people are new to the series so that they can pick up where the overlap is and perhaps explore it.
Lilly: 23:31
I did notice that reading this book is that even though it is part of a series, it does almost entirely stand alone. Is that something intentional that you're doing so that these books can be read independently or is that just the nature of the mystery genre?
Andrew: 23:48
Well, I think it is the nature of the mystery genre, but it's certainly a good thing. I don't think I sit there consciously aware of that, but certainly it's something that I would aspire to if I was going to make a list of attributes that you want in a series because there's wonderful, really brilliant series of seafaring adventures by Patrick O'Brien about the Napoleonic wars at sea. That might sound boring, but it's not. These are great books, but I read them out of sequence. I read them on the basis of what I could get a hold of.
Lilly: 24:18
Is that master and commander?
Andrew: 24:20
Yes, but here's the thing, Master and Commander is the first one, and I got to it, it might have been the 10th one I read, and it's not that great, like it's certainly not the one to start with. It's a bit turgid, he's finding his feet in it. If you want somebody to start reading these books, you don't recommend that one, because they might not get through it. Certainly they won't fall in love with it instantly, they might, but it's not likely. So I'd recommend something like The Nutmeg of Consolation, you know, something from the middle of the series. And you can read the books out of sequence, certainly without any harm. It's, once you've fallen in love with them, it's an additional pleasure to read them all the way through in sequence. And in The Vile Detective, there is enough gentle continuity to make that rewarding, if you were to do that. But whenever people come up to me and say, which one should I start with? I say, I actually, I wouldn't start with the first one. And if you don't start with the first one, the fun thing is, and I've had, we've had discussions about doing the TV series. And that happens from time to time. We also have this discussion. You don't want to start with the first one. What you can do and what's fun, like in a comic, is you have eventually, when you're the main flow of the narrative, you go back and you do the origin story. I think it's much more interesting to see Nevada turn up out of nowhere as a mystery woman and meet him and for them to sort of not immediately click. When you know that they're going to get together in a way that it's kind of adds to it for me So I always recommend people not to start with the first book and like Master and Commander it's because I feel that it's not the slickest and smoothest and easiest of the books because when I was discovering the world and discovering the characters and I was Breaking new ground when I was writing it and after that It became much easier. But I do wonder if that effort shows a little bit in the first novel. People assure me it doesn't. And I'm hypersensitive, of course, because they're, I'm looking at it from the inside. But still, the fact remains, I think it's a good idea just to start with another one of the books. And then if you like them, work your way through them. And it's always a great thing. If you find a series of books you like, and there's a whole bunch of them, that's such a great feeling, isn't it? You think, oh, yay, I can dive into this whole pile of books in this new series that I've fallen in love with. As a reader, I adore that.
Sara: 26:27
It's always a delight to find a series that's established and there's a lot of it that you can read.
Andrew: 26:33
I mean, I did that recently with Carter Dixon, a. k. a. John Dixon Carr, who has two, I count them, two series of detective novels. One is Henry Merryvale, and the other one is, isn't it terrible that I can reach it and grab the other series, Dr. Gideon Fell. I managed to remember it without having to look it up, which is very good. But anyway, and there's at least a dozen novels in each series. And they're, they're good. So that was a double delight. He wrote the two series under two pseudonyms because, I think because his publisher could only absorb so many books a year, and he was a very prolific writer and a good writer. Like he wasn't, they weren't trash. When he was on form, he could write three or four novels a year and they were great. Like his best books. Come from that period of fecundity. So it's, you know, more power to his elbow.
Lilly: 27:24
To avoid spoilers, skip to 43 18. this book opens with a news article that actually takes place halfway through the story that we're reading, and that added just such a fascinating like edge to the mystery as the reader trying to figure out what the heck is going on with that dead body. And
Andrew: 27:52
for that. And it sounds like I sat there and thought, Oh, this is a brilliant stylistic flourish. But in fact, often I think the book's a bit slow to get started. So we need to have some murdery stuff right at the front. So that's why I did that.
Sara: 28:09
This book had a really fun structure. It was kind of like a maze of mysteries where new ones get introduced and some get solved and then they all revolve around Lambert in a way that makes it feel like one cohesive story.
Andrew: 28:26
I, I, and I think you mean by that, that, that it begins as a search for a missing person and they find him. So that's, that's one mystery solved. There's a couple of things to say about that. One is that it's a classic. The great private eye novels, things like the Lou Archer series by Ross MacDonald or Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe, the search for a missing person is such a classic thing, isn't it? In fact, um, there's a, I think it's the long goodbye by Chandler in which he's hired to look for a missing rider who's an alcoholic. I'm a little bit. wary because I've seen the movie and I've read the book and I'm not sure that the, how similar the plot is. So I might be referencing the movie more than the book, but yeah, so Marlowe is hired to look for this, this famous writer by his wife because he's gone astray. So I'd very much had that in mind. And then when they find him halfway through, I thought, you know, like they're searching and searching and searching. Wouldn't it be great if he just turns up at their house? Like he's sitting in their back garden. And that's like, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Seven, David Fincher, but they sat down and tried to work out what would be the most unsatisfying way for them to apprehend the serial killer. Why doesn't he turn himself in? Like, that's an extraordinary thing. So I sort of had that in mind too, which was a lot of fun that that was very much the secondary mystery. And then what's nice is once the missing person is fully up to speed as part of the cast of characters, you can move in a very different direction.
Lilly: 29:48
we learn a lot about Lambert before he turns up from the characters around him. And then it's sort of, you know, not twisted, but reintroduced from his perspective. And one of the things that I really liked about this book was how his family dynamic is established. Because he is in a, what's the word, quadruple? Is that the
Andrew: 30:08
Yeah, he's in a very kind of, um, unusual relationship with three women, one of whom he's had a child by, who's now grown up.
Lilly: 30:15
I loved the insight into that family dynamic. That one of the mysteries is, you know, how well do these people actually get along? There's a lot of speculation around it by other characters in the book. But at one point we see Poppy and Jaquetta, two of his partners. Make a very sincere entreaty that they just want Lambert home, because they miss him. And that was so sweet, and then I was so stressed out, because at that point we kind of thought maybe they had killed him.
Andrew: 30:43
Yeah.
Lilly: 30:46
And as I didn't know who to believe, but I was very glad that they ended up being genuine in their affection for him.
Andrew: 30:52
Well, and the third woman, the third partner, the Greenwelly nympho, whose name is,
Lilly: 30:58
Selena, I think? Serena? Selena.
Sara: 31:02
And
Andrew: 31:02
when he returns home, we see a different side of her because she's suddenly, you know, she's been like this kind of really obnoxious, hard nosed, cold person, but then you suddenly see that she's actually like, there is this kind of family love between all of them. And so this unexpected side to her arises, which is, it's always nice to see an unexpected aspect to a character. Yeah. Yeah.
Sara: 31:25
we kind of see that, another unexpected side of her too at the very, very end when everything has played out and she's trying to campaign for Julian to have a reduced sentence because he's one of the villains.
Andrew: 31:39
I'm so pleased you brought that up because suddenly, the whole family pulls together, including Lambert, who Julian was theoretically seeking to kill. Like, I mean, I'm sure that Lambert would rationalize it that, you know, that was never going to happen, but the reader doesn't necessarily think that, and the violent detective doesn't necessarily think that. But I think it's, you know Psychologically true that the family, just all other priorities fall by the wayside, and they just pull together to try and protect the kid, no matter how little the shit deserves it. Because, you know, from my point of view, but I thought, I thought about that and I thought, well, just because I think that Julian is this evil little poisonous little squirt, the people who love him wouldn't think that. So it was quite interesting and kind of like a piece mental gymnastics to write that from their point of view and to sort of inhabit their, their view of him and to write it with conviction. So I found that that really quite good fun to do.
Sara: 32:36
It felt true to the characters, but like the final detective, I did not think he was worth it.
Andrew: 32:42
exactly. But the thing about Lambert's complex family life that I like is that because he's got these three partners, these three men, and a grown son, and then with him, that's five people right there. Suddenly, You've got a rich pool of suspects instantly. I mean, in Crime Novels, you do want a rich pool of suspects, but the problem is keeping track of who the hell all the characters are, right? There was never any problem with that because you knew that they were members of the family and where they stood in the family. So that was like five characters for the price of one, in a sense. And then you had the salacious tabloid journalist who's quite, it was quite easy to remember who he was. So we had this fairly wide range of characters. But it wasn't hard for the reader to sort them out. That's always the challenge to try and achieve that.
Lilly: 33:28
It was fascinating too, their unconditional love for Julian makes the reader see him as even more of a little shit. Because his, at least his verbal reason for wanting to kill Lambert is that he didn't love Julian. Selena Julian's mother enough, like didn't consider her special enough, which is clearly just Julian's problem.
Andrew: 33:51
Well, it doesn't bother Selena, does it? Yeah. So is that where you're going with
Lilly: 33:55
yeah. Like Selena's fine. So Julian is just kind of making up this issue to be mad about
Andrew: 34:01
Well, it's Julian is needy, right? In the worst kind of way, which is translated into aggression. He just doesn't feel that he's central enough to things and like he's, therefore he's saying that about his mother. But basically he's just aggrieved that the universe isn't ordered exactly to his whim, which we've, I think we've seen that earlier in the book.
Lilly: 34:23
Yeah.
Andrew: 34:24
I mean, he's been terribly spoiled. Lambert has brought this on himself, but not single handedly because I assume that all of the women would have spoiled it because he would have been the only child. He would have had effectively three moms and a dad all doting on him. So he's been monstrously spoiled. But they're kind of, you know, the old quotation that if you sow intolerance you reap the whirlwind. So they've sowed a very spoiled child and they've reaped considerable crime as a result of it. Because we shouldn't forget that whatever rationalizations we make for Julian, he murdered poor Timothy, didn't he?
Lilly: 34:56
Yeah.
Sara: 34:58
He does some pretty terrible things.
Andrew: 35:00
Yeah. Yeah.
Lilly: 35:01
There are other really excellent romantic relationships in this story. Uh, and then some less excellent. Uh, I Agatha makes some. I, in my opinion, questionable choices in this book. Yeah.
Andrew: 35:19
Because he's so boring.
Lilly: 35:21
Oh, well, he's pretty boring, but that's fine. I mean,
Sara: 35:26
For me, it was less that he was boring and more that he didn't seem interested in her. Like, like he, I mean, obviously he's interested in her during a relationship, but he didn't seem interested in her as a person.
Andrew: 35:39
Oh, and he wants to drive, the way he insists on driving, all that stuff.
Sara: 35:43
He was just kind of a jerk.
Andrew: 35:45
Yeah, well, that's the thing is, we've all met fantastic women who are going out with jerks, right? And I just, I thought that was kind of very true, too. But I mean, Yeah. She does begin to, you have to remember that she sort of fell in love with him when she was younger and more impressionable, or she had a crush on him. So this is kind of the second phase of that crush. But all the while it's going on, she's kind of deeply aware of all those things that you're saying. And like, ratio is scheduled for, you know, what we'd call the elbow in England. In other words, the boot to get, he's going to get booted out. But I think not to be salacious about this, but they probably are really good together in bed. Which, again, can happen between people who are really bad together out of bed. So I think that that would be another part of that dynamic that one would have to take into account. But I certainly, I think, Nevada and our hero both feel exactly the same way you do about Horatio. That he's not worthy of her, and he's a dick to her, yeah.
Lilly: 36:44
And the real deal breaker is that he admires Stinky Stanmer, and that is just unacceptable in a romantic partner.
Andrew: 36:52
Thank you so much. In the first draft of the book, I just kept Stinky as an offstage character all the way, but my editor said, you really need to see him. I thought, well, you know what, he's right, because some people might not have read other books in the series. And also it was a bit of a cheat. So I, I was quite delighted to have Stinky just turn up and do his thing, which is what he does.
Lilly: 37:11
Also, in the original draft of this, he does not co opt the final festival?
Andrew: 37:17
He does everything he does, but we just, he just never turns up in person. Like he's always just outside a shot, so to speak. I quite like the idea that, um, and then at the end, like, so everything is just reported about Stinky. And I thought that that was an interesting conceit, but it's much better to actually have him turn up in person and be rude to our hero, to his face, which is what he does.
Sara: 37:38
I was glad to see him, not because I like him, but just because it, it's always fun to see him, like, get his comeuppance. Although we don't, we don't really get that much of that in this book, but
Andrew: 37:50
he's the guy you love to hate, right? So it wouldn't be the same without him. And he's come up and he gets in spades, but it is all reported, it's offstage reporting. So at the beginning of the book and the end of the book, I've got these news reports. And again, I realized that the news reports could be written by this Jasper McClugh, a character from another book, because he's got this really like inflated pretentious style, which I quite have fun doing. And like, he has all these reportedly cliches, like he uses. Unnecessary, uh, necessarily elaborate phrases, and like, anyway, tabloid cliches, but it was fun to have this, just to hear about Stinky, like he, he'd, he's been so traumatized yet to be anesthetized for the rest of the weekend, things like that. Just fun to read at second thought, like just in passing at the end of the book.
Lilly: 38:37
So this is the first Vinyl Detective book that I've read since I read Paperback Sleuth,
Andrew: 38:44
Ah,
Lilly: 38:45
which is about Stanmer's sister. Or the main character is Stinky's Stanmer's sister. And it was really interesting how, I mean, obviously Stinky is the same character, but I do sort of bring more to him now.
Andrew: 39:01
I hadn't anticipated that, but that must be the case because suddenly he's more three dimensional because he's plugged into a family.
Lilly: 39:06
Him and, I mean, obviously I've always loved Tinkler, but you do get a different side of him in the paperback sleuth.
Andrew: 39:14
Oh, that's true. Yeah, because you see, see him in a relationship from the point of view of the person that he's in the relationship, well, she would insist it's not a relationship, it's not even a situationship, but they're involved in something big.
Lilly: 39:25
Yes. It's nice. It gives Tinkler more of, like, we don't see him triumph a lot for as much as we love him. And so it is just nice knowing that he does, he does get his sometimes.
Andrew: 39:39
Yeah, and it's like Stinky, he, you, you don't want to take him too much outside a certain envelope because there's a kind of ideal sweet spot for the character like Tinkler or Stinky.
Lilly: 39:51
Were there any scenes that surprised you as you were writing them?
Andrew: 39:55
Yeah. I mean, there's a character in this. Well, for a start, I, I really liked the scene where they, I didn't know what was going to happen when they opened the door in that hotel in Wales, and then they find that girl who's, you know, horribly drunk, and then they think they're rescuing her, but they're not actually, they're rescuing her from her brother who's trying to rescue her. And then I realized I could bring that character Kaylee back. So that was that, all that was kind of a bit of a surprise. But what really surprised me, and I've been avoiding talking about this because I was hoping you guys might mention her, was Princess Satan. Because, like, she was just going to be in that bit at the beginning with the food wagon when they drug him and at the, uh, Brixton Academy, right? And I just thought, oh, I really like her. And then I thought, She should come back for the robbery because she's such a kind of, um, badass, right? And then I thought, what if she's the only one like who's together enough to actually make the getaway from the robbery? So like everybody else screws up the robbery like a bunch of idiots in an Elmore Leonard novel, but she's like, Gone, with the cash! And I just, I, I just fell in love with that character. And that, so, that was, came as a big surprise to me, because in some ways it's kind of the Princess Satan novel. And what I also love is Martin Stifford does the cover art. If you look at the cover of that book, he's got a picture of her with her AK It's so great, like he's so captured, like her attitude and it's so characterful, like I just love that. I love the whole cover, but that particular bit of it, the way he's depicted her is just outstanding.
Sara: 41:26
I really, really enjoyed Princess Satan. I want her to team up with Cordelia.
Andrew: 41:31
Oh, listen, it's funny you should say that because that was, I thought she must come back. And I was thinking, how can I get her into the paperback sleuth novel, just because it just seemed, I suppose because they're both deeply morally compromised characters, it seemed a natural thing. I don't know, it's funny you should say that because that was sort of immediately what I was thinking. Also, Because in a way I could give her more elbow room in a paperback sleuth novel, because it would be kind of difficult to make her center stage in a vinyl detective. I don't know if I can quantify the reasons for that. I have that gut feeling that she's more peripheral in the vinyl detective universe, but she could very much move more towards center stage and paperback sleuth. If I could dream up a way in which she, she was Heavily featured in a Vinyl Detective novel, I'd do it, just because she's, she's a great character waiting to be used again. Although, I shouldn't say it myself, but I just love that character. um, I can't wait to use her some more. And I suppose you kind of need, I don't ever want to get inside her head because she's such an enigma, right? She's just such a cool character to see from the outside. And I think maybe one reason why I thought paperback sleuth is, I thought the paperback sleuth would be quite smitten with her, not just cause she's this really cool woman, but because she's so without morals, you know, like she's such a bad hat, all of which would be tremendously appealing to Cordelia. So you've hit the nail on the head there. Thank you very much.
Sara: 42:58
Yeah, I hope she comes back, because she was fabulous.
Andrew: 43:01
Thank you. And it's one of those things that I just didn't, like I say, I didn't even expect her to stay the distance in the book. And by the time the book was over, in some ways it had been her book. Like, if you look at it from a certain point, if you look at it as a heist novel, it's totally her triumph
Lilly: 43:20
of the paperback sleuth books, I believe there's another one scheduled to come out pretty soon here.
Andrew: 43:26
in June. Which is going to be, it's surprisingly close now, it's not far off.
Lilly: 43:32
Can you tell us a little bit about what we can look forward to in that, and then maybe any other current projects you have on the horizon?
Andrew: 43:39
Yeah. Well, I don't know what is in the advanced publicity, but it's called the Ashram Assassin and it's all based around yoga. So like I'm basically monetizing all the aspects of my life, you know, cats, vinyl, yoga. Yeah. I actually put a sequence into the first paperback sleuth book, A Death and Fine Condition, where it mentions that she was into yoga because I thought that's, she's not the sort of character you'd expect because she's such a, you know, she's such a bad girl, naughty girl, like lazy girl. if you forgive those adjectives, but she is like that. You wouldn't think she, and all, very much not the spiritual type, right? So she seems like an unlikely, so I thought, oh, that, so all the more reason to make her an avid yoga aficionado, because it's discordant. So I did that in the first book, and I actually, Ended up, like I, sometimes you end up down, going down little rabbit holes and then thinking, is this too much of a diversion from the main line of the book? So there's this flashback to when she was booted out of the yoga center for dealing weed. And I thought it's got nothing to do with this main story, but I kind of like it. So I left it in there. Nobody complained too much. In fact, nobody complained at all. Then I thought, Oh, well, I was thinking what to do next. I thought, well, let's actually go back to that yoga center. Cause I could, now you think what does yoga got to do with paperbacks? Well, there's an interesting little subgenre of books which is sort of like hippie, dippy, self discovery, kind of psychedelic kind of books. And the examples, I like, these may mean nothing to you. There was a guy called Carlos Castaneda who wrote a series of very popular kind of druggy shamanistic books. And before that, there's an English writer, and he pretended that he was a Buddhist monk and he wrote a bunch of, bunch of books. Lobsang Rampa, you know, his real name was something like Fred Weldon, you know. But anyway, I was always fascinated by these kind of books that about Buddhism and mysticism and opening your third eye and all this stuff, levitation. Cats, which I thought, oh, I haven't read it yet, but there's cats, you can count me in. So there's been this. Seam of writing about mystical journeys of discovery, which really came into its own in the hippie era. But I thought, Oh, well, that would be kind of a natural for the yoga center. So they have a set of these rare books by the guy who founded the yoga centers called Avram Silverlight. And he wrote these kind of, um, Castaneda esque stories about yoga and being on the hippie trail in India and spiritual self discovery. And they're all quite rare paperbacks now, they've been stolen. And so the paperback sleuth is hired to get them back. So, so it's, as she says herself in the first chapter, it's like send a thief to catch a thief. So that was nice. So it is a story about her searching for rare paperbacks, but it sort of adds an interesting dimension to it, to the fact that she's been hired to find these stolen goods. And also I knew that Avram saw, because you'll notice both Carlos Castaneda and Lobsang Ramba. Well, they were essentially charlottes, right? It turns out they were charlottes. And so I thought, well, that instantly makes whoever wrote those books quite an interesting character. Those sort of things that get my creative juices flowing, that I'm sort of more explaining why I wrote the book than what the book is about, but I don't want to tell you too much about what the book is about. But I will say, in exactly the same way that I was saying that the first, Final Detective was a struggle to write because I was discovering the world and the characters and all the rest of it. I had that with the paperback sleuth, so the second one was just so easy to write. I mean, I felt that it was coming, merging effortlessly, and I hope and believe some of that effortlessness will communicate itself to the reader, and then it'll be a really fun book. smooth, gripping read. I hope so, because it certainly came off the, came off my fingers onto the page, or in this case, onto the Word file, the MS Word file, that way. It was just, it was so easy to write, because I guess I was so familiar with Cordelia and her environment. Oh yeah, and uh, of course her, her landlord is back.
Sara: 47:40
Excellent. Well, I know I for one cannot wait for that book. I'm really excited for it, and we would love to have you back on for that as well.
Andrew: 47:50
I would be more than delighted, because, I mean, for a start, they're Easter eggs that overlap between the book we've just discussed and the next one, so that'll be fun to talk about.
Lilly: 48:00
so much for joining us.
Sara: 48:02
Yeah.
Andrew: 48:03
What could be a better way to spend the evening than talking about myself? No, I mean, that's, I think that's true of everyone, but I'd rather than talk about myself. I'd rather, even that, I'd rather talk about my books. There's nothing, my writing, there's nothing that's more fun to, you know, an informed, intelligent and receptive audience like you guys. It's just been a sheer pleasure. Like, like when you just said about how we could port Princess Satan over to the paperback Sleuth novels, and that was exactly what I was thinking. It's been such a treat to talk to you guys.
Sara: 48:35
Well, it's always a pleasure having you on. Before we let you go, can you tell our listeners where you can be found on the internet?
Andrew: 48:41
Right, so I am on Twitter, which I refuse to call anything else, and I am on Facebook, and I am on Instagram. Now on Twitter, never call it x, and Facebook, I'm Andrew Cartmell, and there's a bunch of Andrew Cartmells, but you know you've got me, because you've got a picture of me and my little cat called Molly, peering over my shoulder. There was a fake account, that picture, for about an hour or two hours, but we got rid of that, so you will have found the real me. On Instagram, I am called the Vinyl Detective London, because when I signed up to Instagram, not only was Andrew Cartmell gone, Vinyl Detective was gone. I mean, like, I couldn't believe how How far away I had to move from my own name to get something. So all three of those platforms I am on, I do have a blog called Narrative Drive, which I haven't met, which is about writing. And I say it's about writing because I started off doing it about the books I was reading and I wasn't reading enough books. So I extended it to include TV shows or movies. Notionally because I'm talking about the writing of them, which I am to some extent, but basically I'm blogging about stuff. Now, the reason I really mentioned that before is around about the time of the pandemic, I sort of stopped doing them. I just, I was doing a radio show of which I'll plug in a minute, but I just didn't have enough headspace to do the blog and the radio show and whatever else I was doing. But the, it looks like the blog's coming back. So that's why I mentioned it. Mentioning it to you guys, because I've been all the while I haven't been blogging. I have still been keeping note when I can't read a book now without making notes about the good bits, like quotes that I want to quote the best bit. So I've got this whole file of these. I thought, well, I've got to start. All I need to do is write them up a little bit, you know, and put it in the covers and books like next season by Michael Blakemore, which is going to be one of the first ones I blog, they're worth telling people about. So my, Blog is coming back and it might even be back on a regular weekly basis, which will be amazing because I intend to also do my weekly radio show, which is called final detective radio. And I think if you probably just Google it, but last time I tried that, it wasn't quite as straightforward. You'd think that final detective radio would just take you there, but it's on. two platforms. It's an internet radio show. It's on Medway Pride Radio, and it's also on Reclaimed Radio. And the functionality on Reclaimed Radio is a bit easier. It's a bit more user friendly because you just find old shows and play them, which you can do on Medway Pride, but it's a bit harder to do. So please listen to my radio show, but all the more importantly, Please buy my books or borrow them from the library. Please support your library. That's vitally important. And I do have, hope to have two plays coming out this year. They're not entirely a done deal yet. So hopefully when I speak to you next, at least one of those will be, you know, firmly booked in.
Sara: 51:32
Yeah, hopefully we'll be able to plug that as well next time.
Andrew: 51:35
Be amazing if you could, that'd be lovely.
Sara: 51:42
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.
Lilly: 51:46
Come disagree with us. We're on Twitter, Blue Sky, Instagram, and TikTok at FictionFansPod. You can also email us at FictionFansPod at gmail. com.
Sara: 51:57
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.
Lilly: 52:04
We also have a Patreon, where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.
Sara: 52:11
Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated.
Lilly: 52:16
Bye!
