RERELEASE: The Conjuring of Zoth Avarex by KRR Lockhaven

Episode 242

Release Date: August 26, 2026

Your hosts read KR(R) Lockhaven's debut novel, "The Conjuring of Zoth Avarex." They talk about delightful fantasy hijinks and magic trade schools. They also discuss references, real world and fictional, good and bad.

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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”

- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

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Episode Transcript*

*this transcript is generated by Descript, please excuse the mess.

Lilly 0:04

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily,

Sara 0:10

and I'm Sarah, and today we're re-releasing an episode that we recorded when we first started the podcast.

Lilly 0:16

so we won't be doing our quick five minute intro this time.

Sara 0:20

During the first year of the podcast, we combined two book conversations into each episode along with some related segments like Pet Peeve Corner, and words are weird.

Lilly 0:30

We decided to republish those conversations as separate episodes to give those books a better chance to shine.

Sara 0:37

These have been slightly remastered, but you can still enjoy our Peak 2021 Microphone Technology.

Lilly 0:43

If you want to listen to the original double feature, these are episodes two through 23 in our podcast feed.

Sara 0:50

And as always, come disagree with us.

Lilly 0:53

I have a confession to make

Sara 0:56

What's your confession, Lily?

Lilly 0:57

It's different from the other one this time.

Sara 1:01

So you did in fact read this

Lilly 1:03

I did read the... Well, I read the last one too, but I...

Sara 1:06

just not recently and not specifically for the podcast

Lilly 1:09

Right. I did read this one recently and for the podcast, and I am extremely biased because The Conjuring of Zoth Avarix by K.R.R. Lockhaven takes place in Seattle

Sara 1:23

Yes, it does. It does take place in Seattle.

Lilly 1:27

There, there are a lot of reasons to like this book, and being in Seattle is a bad reason, but I still do.

Sara 1:35

I mean, I think it's an understandable reason

Lilly 1:39

There are just some extremely charming

Sara 1:41

local references

Lilly 1:43

Yeah. That obviously, like, you don't have to know where Lake Washington is to enjoy this book, but the fact that that is the geographical call-out for some of the action, it's just fun because it's accurate, and I've been there.

Sara 2:01

To, to someone who lives in Washington, it feels like an in-joke

Lilly 2:06

Well, I will say this, he sure as hell didn't get anything wrong as far as geography goes, which can be a huge annoyance. If

Sara 2:15

very true

Lilly 2:16

is trying to set something where they don't understand, then it completely stands out.

Sara 2:23

Yeah.

Lilly 2:23

And

Sara 2:24

that's very true

Lilly 2:25

yeah, so I think I noticed it because I live here, and so I'm sort of more familiar with the area. But I mean, if you don't live here, it doesn't matter. The, I- it's just fun. I'm gonna stop over-explaining it. It was fun. It was good. This book is really fun in a lot of really different ways.

Sara 2:47

it, it is. Before we get any further in our discussion of it, A, I would like to thank KRR Lockhaven for providing us this copy, and B, I would like to say that you can get it if you are listening to this episode as it comes out, you can get this book tomorrow. For everyone else who is untethered from time, you can get it April 1st. So if you are listening to it after this episode has come out, it is already available to you

Lilly 3:13

I would like to thank KR Lockhaven for having the name Kyle Robert Redundant Lockhaven

Sara 3:25

That's quite good.

Lilly 3:26

It's just excellent all around.

Sara 3:28

it is just excellent

Lilly 3:30

The full title of this book is The Conjuring of Zoth Avarex: The Self-Proclaimed Greatest Dragon in the Multiverse. So when you said The Conjuring of Zoth Avarex, I was like, "All right, there's gonna be some fantasy bullshit." And then when I saw the subtitle, like immediately upon seeing the subtitle I was hooked. It's, this book is such a charmingly, like, self-aware pa- I don't think parody is quite the right word,

Sara 4:05

I

Lilly 4:05

but maybe it is

Sara 4:07

may- maybe. I, I mean, Lockhaven has said that he takes a lot of inspiration from Terry Pratchett, and I think that's evident in some of the humor of the series

Lilly 4:17

Oh, the, the footnotes are some of the, my favorite parts

Sara 4:23

I enjoyed the footnotes, but I think that for me, footnotes are a medium that are better enjoyed in print, and since I was reading this, like, as an e-book, it felt like they were, they were so long that it, it broke up the, the pacing of the, of the book. But that's an issue with the format that I read it and not with the footnote itself

Lilly 4:44

I also read it as an e-book and that didn't bother me, so

Sara 4:48

maybe that's just a personal preference then

Lilly 4:50

that's fine. You're allowed to have those. The main premise of this book is that Harris, the main character, is starting his first day on the job of a sort of magical work site. It's called the Site. It's the Site.

Sara 5:07

It, it is, it is magical governmental bureaucracy

Lilly 5:12

Okay, I really love that this book is not fucking with magic school. I am so sick of magic school. I'm over it. I'm done with it. And I think this, this book just sort of grasps onto that. Like, it somehow Lockhaven knew that and went, "Okay, magic school is a trade school, none of this university shit. It's a trade school. Everyone already did it. Let's just go to their first job." And oh man, the comedy of someone being in over their head at their first job is so relatable. And something-

Sara 5:58

done quite perfectly in

Lilly 5:59

Oh, it's fantastic, and it's something that I don't... Well, it's something that I have not seen in books because I feel like a lot of books are going through the school shit, like all of that learning process. But what happens afterwards?

Sara 6:16

You don't see a lot of the nerves that you get, you know, at job interviews and first days. And

Lilly 6:22

Oh,

Sara 6:23

just getting accustomed to being part of the workforce is not really shown

Lilly 6:29

What's that phrase? Imposter syndrome.

Sara 6:32

Yes.

Lilly 6:33

I feel like this book really sees imposter syndrome for someone first entering the workforce. So we are, we are seeing the main character, Harris, on h- basically, it starts with his first day on the job at this secret magical site, and we discover that they're Like, he was hired on for a big project, which is, as the title suggests, The Conjuring of Zoth Avorex. And that, that feeling of being in over your head and thinking you are prepared and then realizing you weren't, that I personally found extremely relatable

Sara 7:15

I think this is one of the best examples of characters being understandably overwhelmed and unequipped to do what they need to do, not because they're making stupid decisions, but just because, like, they're normal people thrown into this, like, way over their head.

Lilly 7:40

They're in way over their head

Sara 7:42

They're in way over their head. So, so, like, a lot of the times if, if you're reading a fantasy novel, like, someone has to, like, you know, go on a quest to get an item, they succeed because that is what advances the plot, and it, things like that, like, they fail at, they fail kind of miserably at. But I love it.

Lilly 8:07

Because it's all extremely relatable. Like, that's, it's, that's at the end of the day, I understand why they made the decisions they made.

Sara 8:16

Yeah.

Lilly 8:17

It makes sense at the time

Sara 8:18

Yeah, I see how you got from point A to point B. I would do that too, and I would also probably fail at plan A and at plan B like you did, and at plan C. I see myself in there

Lilly 8:31

I really, really want Lockhaven to write a zombie novel only because I feel like that is the prime failing of zombie novels or stories in any sense. You have characters do stupid shit just to move the story forward, and it's the worst. Mm. However, I think Lockhaven, in this novel, has proven that he can, like, truly capture the realities of human limits.

Sara 9:03

Yeah

Lilly 9:04

And, and so I want to see him do a zombie story just because I trust that he could actually do it well

Sara 9:11

I would love to see a humorous... I mean, I'm not normally one for zombie stories, but I, I would read that, as long as there was humor in it. Humorous zombies

Lilly 9:23

I'm, I guess I'm just saying that's a trope that I would really love to see him do just because, like, the strengths that he has shown I think would be very good for it Xathaverex the dragon who fucks shit up in America. I- that's really f- okay. Is it spoilers to say there are alternate endings to this book? I don't think so

Sara 9:50

No, I don't think that's spoilery in and of itself

Lilly 9:53

I've, that's all I'm gonna say about it, and that it's wonderful. That was something, okay, okay. This book was incredible because I feel like normally when a book has completed its rising action and it's wrapping up, I either don't care or I hate it most of the time

Sara 10:18

you mean the book in general or that specific, like, a- aspect that it's wrapping up?

Lilly 10:24

No, the, the, the falling action. After the climax, I either don't care or I hate what's happening. Like, there, it's usually it's whatever. But in The Conjuring of Zoth Aferex, Lockhaven just, like, really nailed that plot structure, and I, I don't want that to sound trite. Like, I'm not, I'm not being shitty. I really mean it. You get the excellent setup where you really identify with all of the characters because of that first job nerves that we've all had. And then this was a book where I actually, like, was really I was very excited to read what happened next even though I was already content with the wrap-up of the plot

Sara 11:10

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's not a problem that personal- personally that I have. But I did think that he did that wrap-up very well

Lilly 11:17

It didn't feel redundant. I was actually interested in it

Sara 11:21

Right? It, it didn't feel like something tacked on

Lilly 11:24

Exactly. And because he is, he has clearly proven his chops as a good writer through that, he would've trusted the reader a little bit more

Sara 11:37

Yeah. The one issue that I had with the book was how blatant some of the pop culture references were, and I feel like that's going to really affect, for me personally as a, as a chronic rereader, I feel like that's going to affect my enjoyment of this book if I came back to it 10 years from now. Like, going to be jarring, so I, I wish that he had allowed his subtleties, which he's really good at, like there are some references, some culture- cultural references that are just fantastic, but I had... I wish that he had allowed those to shine instead of putting in quite so many quite so blatantly

Lilly 12:26

I f- yes, I feel the exact same way. I think the references were numerous, and some of them landed extremely well,

Sara 12:37

Uh-huh.

Lilly 12:37

and then some of them felt almost condescending, frankly.

Sara 12:43

Mm-hmm

Lilly 12:44

Uh, I di- I didn't need you to spell out the entire name and author of the book, you know? Like, I get it. I'm there w- I'm here with you. It's okay.

Sara 12:55

it was just, it was just a little much at times

Lilly 12:59

I think a really good example of that, there are two different references to The Hobbit. So, Xoth Haverix is a dragon, and he makes two different references to Smaug in The Hobbit. The first one is, "You know my contemporary Smaug, who lives in Erebor?" Which was, to me, too much

Sara 13:27

I- it's a little jarring. Like, it takes you out of the action if you're, if you're then thinking about, like, this reference

Lilly 13:36

Exactly. But then the second reference was someone was trying to observe him for weaknesses, and he just says, "What? Were you expecting to find a missing scale or something?" And that is just so good. Like,

Sara 13:57

That lands perfectly

Lilly 13:59

so good. Lockhaven, trust me more. That's, like, that's all I wanna say the whole book. Like, trust me, please. Like, I'm here with you. You don't have to spell it out for me. I get it. And when he trusts you, oh, it's so good

Sara 14:17

I mean, overall it's, it's a really funny book. Like, I, like I said, I wasn't intending to start reading it when he sent it to us, and then I did because it just sounded good, and I kept reading it 'cause I was like, oh, I'm really invested in these characters and what's going on. Is it a spoiler to say that I f- found the revelation of who Zath Abrax was to be one of the most hilarious things that I've read in a book?

Lilly 14:45

Not if you phrase it like that. I think it's a great thing to say.

Sara 14:49

Because I found the revelation of who Zath Avrax actually was to be one of the most hilarious things in a book that I've read. It was so good. It was just perfect

Lilly 14:59

The pacing, the reveal, masterful

Sara 15:03

Yes, it was, I mean, it was great

Lilly 15:06

Even coming into this book, so we had been discussing The Conjuring of Xoth Averex, which is a title that has its own, you know, associations or baggage or whatever.

Sara 15:22

Annotations, yeah. And I didn't give you the subtitle.

Lilly 15:24

No, you didn't. So then when I opened the book for the first time and saw the subtitle, just that in itself felt like a grand reveal.

Sara 15:36

You're welcome

Lilly 15:38

Like, that kind of punchy humor was excellent. My, I think one of my criticisms, which it's not fair, you should never compare anyone to Terry Pratchett because that's just not fair to them. But Terry Pratchett gets away with being extremely frank and on the nose because he is discussing a world that is not Earth, and this book is happening on Earth, and so that kind of commentary kind of lands a little bit different

Sara 16:16

I think this is another example of if Lockhaven had trusted the readers more, he could have been a little more subtle about the commentary, and it would have hit harder

Lilly 16:27

Mm-hmm. Yeah, trust, trust me. I'll I'm here with you. Trust me. I think, I think that's exactly what I was shouting the entire time I read this.

Sara 16:37

Yeah, I mean, I, I think it, I think it all, like most of our criticisms boil down to just trust the reader a little more. So overall, although I did have some minor quibbles with the book, I thought it was overall fantastic, and I'm really excited to see what he writes next

Lilly 16:56

Oh, absolutely, and I'm going to tweet at him every day. Not actually, because I don't do Twitter, but if I did, I would tweet at him every day to do a zombie book because I think he would do a good one. The really cool thing is that $1 from every book sold is going to the Washington State Council of Firefighters Burn Foundation, which I just think is extremely lovely

Sara 17:21

And it is even more reason to buy the book. I mean, you should buy the book independent of that, But it is an additional reason to buy the book.

Lilly 17:30

It's, you know, you should buy this book, you should read this book if you're looking for a good time. Is that a weird Craigslist post? Did I just formulate a weird Craigslist post for this novel? I'm sorry.

Sara 17:43

I mean, maybe, but also unrelated to Good Times, there was one scene, this is not spoilery I don't think, but there was just one, one thing that was absolutely terrifying.

Lilly 17:57

Yes, tell me. I know what you're gonna talk about. Tell me about it.

Sara 18:01

you know what it is. The anthropomorphized tomato sandwich is one of the weirdest, creepiest things I have read in a book. It was horrifying. Like, I got there and I was like, "What the fuck did I just read?" But it was great. It was, like, it, it, it totally fit with where the, like, that, that action was going, so I loved it, but it, was also just so terrifyingly weird Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Lilly 18:38

Come disagree with us! We're on BlueSky and Instagram at fictionfanspod. You can also email us at fictionfanspod at gmail. com or leave a comment on YouTube.

Sara 18:50

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Lilly 18:57

We also have a Patreon, where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.

Sara 19:03

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye!