Author Interview: Worry Box by Chris Panatier
Episode 247
Release Date: October 28, 2026
Your hosts welcome back Chris Panatier to chat about his latest horror novel Worry Box. They talk about overdone haunted house tropes, animal cruelty, sympathetic characters, and how the novel was in itself his own form of worry box. Content warnings include: child neglect, child abuse, and animal cruelty.
Find more from Chris:
Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:
- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
Episode Transcript*
*this transcript is generated by Descript, please excuse the mess.
Lilly 0:04
Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily
Sara 0:10
And I'm Sarah, and I'm so pleased to welcome Chris Panatier back onto the podcast to talk about his latest horror novel, Worry Box. Even though it is a horror novel, Chris, how can you keep doing this to me?
Chris 0:21
I'm sorry and/or you're welcome. Um, I'm, I'm very happy to be back and to see you both again. This is always fun. It's become tradition. So, yeah, I'm really happy to be talking this new horror book with you, and it's, it's funny 'cause I, I pivoted on you guys. Like, we were, we were science fiction and then, then boom, just like pivoted to horror. So now you guys are in it and you can't get
Lilly 0:47
Yes.
Chris 0:48
out.
Lilly 0:49
we talk about this wonderful book, we have our quick introduction questions starting with what's something great that happened recently?
Chris 0:58
Okay. Well, I do have something great that happened recently, and that is that I wrote this book called "Daytide," and it w- came out as a limited edition deluxe edition. It was like 350 total copies. I wrote it, illustrated it, and I put it out with a very small publisher called Rapture Publishing back in February. And it it sold out and then it did, it did really, really well and people really responded to it. And then it got picked up by Saga at Simon Schuster, and so it's gonna get, yeah, it's gonna get a, you know, worldwide release either late next year or early '28. So that's, that's great news, right? Thanks.
Sara 1:47
Congratulations
Chris 1:49
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm very excited about it. It's my first, you know, foray into Big Five territory, so, I'm very corporate now, just so you know
Sara 2:00
You're a sellout. How could you do this?
Chris 2:02
I know.
Lilly 2:03
I wondered why you came onto the podcast in a suit and tie, but I guess that answers that question.
Chris 2:08
And a top hat and a cane and a
Lilly 2:11
And the monocle?
Chris 2:13
There we go. Okay, going full monopoly, yep. Yep. No, I've changed so much since this has happened, really. I have several layers of people you have to go through to get to me, so you guys should count yourself very lucky. But no, so that was, that was awesome. That's kind of a dream come true, and that book had a really circuitous route to get where it, get where it went. And you know, when that does come out I'll, I'll send you guys a copy. We could do another episode on that. That's, that's a dark fantasy. So, so that one I think, you know, it'll bring us back to our roots a little bit.
Sara 2:50
I, I did, I did have the the page for the limited edition open on my phone, and then I got laid off and I was so sad cause it looked beautiful.
Chris 2:59
Oh, thank
Sara 3:00
Saga Press version going to contain illustrations by you as well?
Chris 3:05
That's such, that's such a good question and I'm glad you asked. So the other thing about the Big Five is they don't talk to you. So, I don't know. they move at a different pace than some of the indies that can kind of move pretty quick. You know, we, we struck a deal in May. I haven't signed a contract yet, but I hear it's coming. I don't know whether they're gonna do the art or kind of do their own thing. I, I, I'm not sure about that. We would sell them the art or license the art to them if they wanted it, but at the same time, I'm not passionate about that either way. Having the art just be a special thing that was in the deluxe edition is, is awesome and, and, and actually it's kind of going against my kind of typical attitude about art in novels, which is I'm kind of against it. Which is funny being an artist that illustrated my own book. But but that publisher, that's what he does. He puts out limited edition deluxe stuff and he does chapbooks and I do all the art for-- I was already doing all the art for the chapbooks that he puts out. And long story short, I sent him a box of signed stuff, 'cause I sign all of them. Sent it back. I crumbled up some paper into the box so it like, you know, would be safe in transit, and I get a text from him and it's a picture and he has flattened one of the pieces of paper and it was from like page 400 something from a draft of "Daytide," 'cause I reuse my paper for all stuff. And he's like, "What's this?" And I was like, "Oh, it's this book I wrote in 2020 and we tried to take it on sub and it kind of died on sub in 2022 around the pandemic and it's just on the shelf." And he's like, "Send this to me." And he read it and loved it and we published it and did the art for it and yeah, and then word of mouth and Saga bought it. But, but I'm okay if they don't do art for it. I really like... I think sometimes you do too much art it, it steals from the reader. You know, they're, you're telling them what to see instead of letting them imagine it, so I don't love it. But that edition is-- I didn't give too much away. You know, I, I leave plenty to the imagination still.
Lilly 5:28
Well, that's wonderful, and I can't wait to get my hands on that.
Chris 5:33
Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. Well, what about you guys?
Sara 5:38
My good thing is that I went to the SFMOMA's new exhibit. It's RM times SFMOMA. It's a collaboration with the, one of the members of the K-pop band BTS, who is a- apparently an avid art collector. And it was really interesting. And he did commentary for, it's like you go through a series of rooms that are organized around some theme that he put together, and he did commentary for each of the, of the rooms, so it really felt like you were having a conversation with him. It was, it was nice. It was a good, a good exhibit, yeah.
Chris 6:12
That's really cool. Okay, nice
Sara 6:15
So if any of our listeners are in the Bay Area I would highly recommend going there. It is open through, I wanna say, like, February 3rd
Lilly 6:26
Great. So there's some time to get yourself to the Bay Area or out of the house into a museum.
Sara 6:31
Yes.
Chris 6:32
Just get out of the house
Lilly 6:34
Yeah. That's actually my good thing. I left the house not just for like groceries, 'cause that almost doesn't count. That I, I went to a, a happy hour work event and it was just really nice. I, I got to meet in person some people that I've been working with for like three or four years. Clients specifically, not coworkers. I also felt really good about my outfit, which I don't know if that's... Well, I know it's not a just me thing, but sometimes you put on an outfit and you're like, "Hell yeah, this is perfect." it was just really nice to like go out and be a person. Yeah, it was good
Chris 7:08
yeah. That's good. That's good. I remember we-- it was like maybe 10 months after our daughter was born, we, we went out and just hung out us in the day, you know? And like, we were like, "What, what do we..." We're day walkers, right? We're like, "What do, what do you do here? What, what are you supposed to do? What do I do with my hands?" Like, but it, it, it was nice. I remember
Lilly 7:32
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, exactly. What is everyone drinking tonight? I have a cider, which is not-- Sarah and I were talking about what to drink for this book, and really it should be hot chocolate. We are both failing you, and I'm sorry.
Chris 7:48
Yeah, j-, yeah, yeah, should be hot chocolate.
Lilly 7:50
it should be. But it is very sunny and warm outside, and so it felt wrong.
Sara 7:56
It, it is unfortunately too sunny for hot chocolate.
Chris 7:59
Ja.
Sara 8:00
that was, that was what I wanted to drink, but I-- not in this weather.
Chris 8:05
No, I get it.
Sara 8:06
So I'm also drinking cider since it's vaguely fall-like.
Chris 8:10
Yeah, there you go. There you go. I-- this is just so vintage me. I'm drinking coffee from this morning that I poured out of the carafe. It's lukewarm, room temperature black coffee in my "Eat trash, hail Satan" possum mug. So yeah. So this is Drew energy right there.
Sara 8:32
I was gonna say that does fit the vibe of the book though.
Chris 8:36
It-- It really does. It really does. Yeah. It's, it's, it's crazy like that.
Lilly 8:42
And has anyone done some extracurricular reading lately?
Sara 8:47
I have an answer for this for once.
Lilly 8:49
Oh, what have you been reading?
Sara 8:51
it, it's been a long time since I've read anything, but going to the exhibit, the SFMOMA exhibit, I picked up a copy of "Beyond the Story: 10-Year Record of BTS." so I am 32% of the way through reading about the history of BTS.
Lilly 9:09
You've evolved from BTS fan fiction to BTS nonfiction.
Sara 9:13
Yes. Yes. Yes. I am, I am on that trajectory
Chris 9:18
That's so interesting. It's funny, I, I, I know K-pop exists, right? And I've heard some in, in a very passive way. I know nothing about it. I, I couldn't name a single song. Like, it's just that, that is one thing that has completely just passed me
Sara 9:37
I've never been a big K-pop person. I've, I've been peripherally aware of it of course, but I've never been a big K-pop person. And then like a month and a half ago, I fell deep into the BTS hole, and I'm not really sure I could tell you why or how but it happened. So there we go.
Chris 9:58
That's awesome
Lilly 10:00
Chris, read anything good lately?
Chris 10:02
Yes. I am about, I would say I'm about 70% of the way through this book. This is an ARC for "Dichotomy" by Catherine Silva. She's a Maine-based horror writer who she's written like, I don't know, she's probably in her 30s and she's written like 20 books. And this is the first one I've read of hers, and she's just kind of, I'm kinda gobsmacked by her skill and, and this story. The story is, is amazing and terrifying and gross and just really good. So I'm really enjoying this. The last thing that I read that I finished that blew my socks off is a book, and this is, this is kinda funny. This is a bit of like synchronicity or something. A book called "The Butcher of Nazareth," which is, is about the butcher. This guy, he's the butcher, and because he is a butcher. And it takes place 30 years after the birth of Jesus, after, And, and this main character had been one of King Herod's black masks who was ordered to go and cull every child under two years old, right? So he's a child murderer, right? And He, he learns that one child escaped the cull, and that, of course, is Jesus. And he's having all of these nightmare visions of a future where fire is raining from the sky, and of course you're, you're given to understand that this is, like, nuclear war. And he's having, he's having all these awful visions because he's convinced that all of this will happen because Jesus survives. So he sets out on this journey to go finish the job. It is, it is like-- It I, I think Kirkus, Kirkus, you know, called it Cormac McCarthy or "Blood Meridian" for-- You know, takes place in Bethlehem. Like, it is this bleak, brutal, but kind of also oddly comforting book. And it was published by this tiny press called Whiskey Tit, and it, it got such a buzz, and I, like, did a whole reel about it on Instagram 'cause I was so pumped by this book. And it got picked up by Saga, like, a month ago, and they're releasing it. They've already released the audio, and they're releasing the e-book, and the book comes out four days after,
Sara 12:39
Wow.
Chris 12:41
So yeah, y- that's, that is a very-- They just basically were like, "We're gonna, we're gonna ride the enthusiasm of this and just, like, buy this book and put it out." And, a-a-and they should because there's a bunch of enthusiasm, and I know they wanna capture that. So that book is one of my all-time favorites. Yeah.
Sara 13:03
Interesting. I probably will not go check it out 'cause I don't think it's my genre, but it-- I will-- I, I am intrigued. I'm, I'm torn because your description, like, is so, complimentary that I'm like, I, I wanna read it, but that at the same time I'm like, "I don't think that I would actually enjoy this book."
Chris 13:23
It may n- it may not be. I mean, I do, I do really, really love a book that feels extremely grounded and is also, you know, bleak and brutal. But again, I have to say my only, my only, like, tiny nitpick is at the end I was like, "Eh, there's too much hope." so then, then maybe, right? Right? But you gotta, you gotta re- really wade through some rough stuff to get there. it's, it's a great one. What about you?
Lilly 13:55
Well, funny you should ask. I sa- I asked, but I am reading Head Cheese by
Chris 14:02
Oh, yay.
Lilly 14:04
I don't know how to pronounce
Chris 14:05
It's Ha- it's Hageman.
Lilly 14:06
Hageman, thank you. Which I bought it, goodness, years and years ago because in one of our interviews, maybe even our first one with you, you mentioned that you had just done the cover for it, and it sounded great, and I bought it, and then as one does, left it on my
Chris 14:24
Yeah, sure. Sure. Totally. That's how that goes
Lilly 14:28
finally picked it up. I'm about halfway through. I cannot yet tell if it's going somewhere,
Chris 14:35
Mm-hmm.
Lilly 14:36
which is maybe we'll see. Let, we'll see where it goes
Chris 14:39
That one is it's like epistolary, you know? It's it's a d- totally different format. It-- I will say that, like, the ending of that book is one of my favorite endings.
Lilly 14:51
Okay, see? So it's going somewhere.
Chris 14:54
yes, I believe it pays off in a big way. But it, but it's not a traditional format. Yeah.
Lilly 15:01
And you just need that, like, not hope, that, that's the wrong word, but that goal. You need the goalpost that you're moving towards. Because the book does persist on vibes just fine. The vibes are there. I was just wondering if there was something else, and it sounds like there is, so that's nice.
Chris 15:19
Yep
Lilly 15:20
Very unsettling.
Chris 15:22
She just did-- She just got hired to do a novelization of that movie "Burning Palms."
Lilly 15:31
Really?
Chris 15:32
I've never seen it, but apparently it's very, like, kinda campy and weird. And yeah, it just-- She just released it, like, last month. Same publisher as "Head Cheese." But yeah, so she's doing some interesting stuff.
Lilly 15:46
Okay. We are, at the part where we can talk about Worry Box now. I made us wait, but we're here. We're here. Thank you so much for sending us the e-book. I have, I have found that e-books are so much easier for me to read these days, just because I'm often juggling a baby and a book while I'm reading, and that was an experience with this.
Chris 16:11
Ooh, I, I-- You were reading some stuff as you were holding him,
Lilly 16:15
I actually think that, yes, I actually think that helped because I Well, real quick content warning for listeners. There is I'm just gonna like vaguely say child endangerment,
Chris 16:28
Yeah, yeah
Lilly 16:29
And animal abuse. Those are the two big ones. I was actually really glad that I was holding my baby because it was very easy to go like, "He is fine.
Chris 16:38
Mm-hmm.
Lilly 16:39
He is right here and fine and sleeping." and that actually made reading some of the darker parts, like, easier, I think. If he had been in a different room, if I hadn't had eyes on him, I probably would have lost it.
Chris 16:54
Yeah. You know, I, I, I can, I can put myself in that situation and yeah. Holding, you can go, "I'm checking on him. He's right here, still breathing."
Lilly 17:03
Mm-hmm
Chris 17:03
Right? That's the whole thing. Did my baby stop breathing? Right? Yeah
Lilly 17:07
Mm-hmm. But despite all of that, I think I probably enjoyed this better than Sarah.
Sara 17:15
Chris, I love your writing. Your books are really, really good. I'm not a horror person.
Chris 17:22
know. I'm, I'm so sorry that y- you guys can, you can skip these books if you need to. It's okay. It's okay
Lilly 17:32
It's spooky month. She's gonna read some kind of horror.
Chris 17:37
All right. All
Sara 17:38
Yeah, we're-- I mean, it is, it is spooky month. I'd be reading horror regardless because that's Lily's one concession to letting me do the rest of our calendar.
Chris 17:48
Okay. Okay
Sara 17:50
I was very stressed this entire novel. I think actually this might be the book that stressed me out the most of yours
Chris 17:58
Yeah, that's-- I mean, I, I think it's probably the most stressful book I've written. You know? It's, there's a slow ratcheting of tension in this one for sure. Yeah. So you r- you reacted appropriately.
Lilly 18:13
And see, I think I was mostly sad, which is probably not what you were... I mean, not incorrect, but definitely a different angle
Chris 18:22
Oh, there's some, there's some heartbreaking stuff that happens in this. I mean, talk about Nathan's backstory. Like, that is brutal
Lilly 18:32
But for all of these things, at, at, at its heart, this book is in conversation, I would say, with the classic haunted house story.
Chris 18:41
Totally
Lilly 18:42
We read, the Shirley Jackson House on Haunted Hill. Was that last year?
Sara 18:48
I think that was last
Lilly 18:49
recently. Not that that has almost anything in common with Horribox except for the some elements that I will talk about in the spoiler section. But I was wondering if there were any that were influential either in a, in a pro or con way. Like, was, was there anything that you're like, "I don't wanna do that thing"?
Chris 19:10
Well, th- there were, there were none by name that were influential because I was trying to, I was trying to not do anything I'd ever seen.
Lilly 19:19
Mhm
Chris 19:20
So I've read plenty of haunted house stuff but I was trying to look away from it as much as I possibly could. In fact, your question taps into the genesis of the book itself, which was-- and it's alluded to in the, in the dedication and in the a- acknowledgments, which is that I was at a panel at StokerCon just watching, and it was called Death to Tropes, and someone very tongue-in-cheek, just to get the conversation going, said, "Well, you know, hasn't haunted house been done to death? Like, is there anything new you could do?" And I was like, "Oh, well, hmm, challenge accepted." And I opened my notebook and I started jotting down ideas, and I came up with basically this idea. It wasn't exactly this, but it was, it was what became this idea to try to challenge the idea that there was nothing left to explore in haunted houses. but I have to say that, you know, "The Haunting of Hill House," is, is definitely in conversation with this book because "Hill House," you know, there's a lot of different interpretations about that book, right? Is it, is it a haunted house? Is that house alive? Is it all in Eleanor's head, right? And I think there's a definitive answer, and it's the first paragraph. We're told Hill House is not sane, right? I think Hill House is alive. And and there's a character in this, in this book, Andy, that mentions that there's a copy of "Hill House" on the shelf in the living room.
Lilly 20:57
Yeah. And it, it was that, like, those questions that me of Hill House. There basically nothing else about this book is in any way I, I would not call this "Oh yeah, this, this is just a Hill House fan fiction."
Chris 21:14
No, no, no. No.
Lilly 21:16
No.
Chris 21:17
It's, it's, it's attenuated. If it's adjacent, it's very far adjacent
Lilly 21:25
And one of the things that this book does so well is how it kind of builds the internal and the external horrors off of each other. That,
Chris 21:38
That's a-- That, that's, that's actually a really good point. I mean, that's, that's kinda how you ratchet up the tension from two directions, right? So you've got Laila's impending adoption, so that's external. You've got the moving into the new house, that's external. And you know, and then you've got, of course, the, the chief internal tensioner, tensioner is, Laila's intrusive thoughts. So you've got these two things like winding in opposite directions, just pulling Laila and pulling the family until, you know, they snap. And my goal when I set out to write this book was to see if I could write a horror novel where things go really bad, 'cause that's what's supposed to happen in horror but, but not as the result of any actual malice. Nobody in this book is, is trying to hurt anybody else. There are misjudgments and there are miscommunications, but no one is trying to hurt anybody else. Everybody's trying to do the right thing. And I, I, I thought that was an interesting limiter to put on as I was trying to write this story and go, "Can I make this, can I make this horrific if everybody i- is actually operating in good faith?" And so it's kind of a lesson on understanding conflict mostly domestic, but I think a lot of it is also you can have a bunch of parties trying to do their best and, and it all just goes to shit
Sara 23:14
Yeah, I think we'll, we'll talk about this a little bit more in the spoiler section. But we do have a comment about how we both really appreciated how basically all of the parties involved, like, were behaving in very understandable ways and how the conflict was not so much about who was right and who was wrong, but, but how they were dealing with all of these factors. But we-- that, that's-- we can't talk about that much here. It is very spoilery.
Chris 23:44
No, you're, you're, you're right. You're right. and I was, I was really trying to tread as I was writing it, and I was like, you know, turning dials and trying to get the characters into the place where I needed them to be. I, I didn't want to go too far one way with any one character where you're like, "Okay, that, that person is the one that's being irrational. That's the one that's the, the bad person who we don't like." And we'll probably talk about it in the spoilers, but you know, I've seen a few reviews where people are like, "Oh my God, I hated this person." And I'm like, "Well, you know more than that one-- that person does." You-- The, the reader is told more in this book than the characters are. And if, sure, if that character knew what you knew, maybe, but they don't. So you have to judge them based on what what's in front of them, what they know, right? And so I was kind of playing with that dichotomy of the reader having to keep in mind that they're ahead of the game and the characters are behind the ball.
Sara 24:52
Yeah, like I might have hated how someone reacted, but that's because, again, I know as, as the reader, like you, like you say, I know a lot more about what's going on than that particular character does. So I, I get where they're, where they're coming from and why they come to those conclusions
Chris 25:10
Right. Yep
Lilly 25:12
So this book is called Worry Box which is presumably named after the worry box that is in the book.
Chris 25:20
Indeed
Lilly 25:21
Is this book also a worry box for your parenting anxieties?
Chris 25:26
Yes. And, and it, it-- that's a very like that's, that's a really smart question because I didn't realize it until maybe three days ago. I was at a conference in South Carolina, not a conference, a book festival, and I was on this panel, and as I was talking, I was like, you know, there, there's the worry box in the book, and then we'll get to this with the spoilers. then there's a much larger worry box. And then as I was answering this question, I was like, 'cause they were asking me about intrusive thoughts, and I was like, "Yes, I absolutely had intrusive thoughts when my daughter was very, very young." And I tend to get intrusive thoughts at the height of happiness. My mind just goes, "Yeah, but, you know, what about all this bad shit you could do?" and, and I was like, "Wait, you know, I was putting that into the manuscript. I was literally doing the activity that Layla is told to do." And it, and that's not just like a, a cute way of looking at it. I do believe, Lily, I think I was doing that. I, I don't think there's any doubt that's what I was doing because finishing this book, I was in a better place, and I don't think I've had a book that did that. So that's a great question, and it's something that I only realized the truth of recently. So, well, yeah.
Lilly 27:01
Is there-- Well, there is a difference. How do you think it's different for the worry box in the story that is very specifically kept secret versus the novel which you are sharing with readers and, and friends and the general public? How does that affect, do you think,
Chris 27:23
Well,
Lilly 27:23
that process?
Chris 27:25
it, the only effect it has is on how i- if people are privy to the worries then they could, I guess, confront you with them. But the, the, the whole point of the worry box is catching that intrusive thought and looking at it and acknowledging it, and then putting it away and not pushing back on it. And, and, you know, the intrusive thoughts that are addressed in the book, they are uniquely Laila's, but, but they are the same tenor and in some cases the same intensity of the ones I had. So it was, even though I wasn't writing down maybe the specific things that I thought it was the, the practice of doing it, it was very much the same. I, I was capturing these, acknowledging them, and putting them down on the paper, and then turning the page, you know, they're gone. So, so I think it had the same effect.
Lilly 28:21
even though you're-- I guess maybe what I was trying to ask was it's not put on in a box to never be looked at again though. You went, you re- revised it and are going over it. You're talking to us right now about it, I guess. But that it still does help. It doesn't just bring it back up
Chris 28:37
Oh, yeah. No, no. In fact, I, I mean, I'm no psychiatrist, but it probably-- it, it dilutes their power. It's almost like exposure therapy, right? My, my wife had a therapist who said you know, because of like, f- you know, anxiety about certain things, who said, "Well, you have to h- you have to do it, have exposure 11 times." If you have 11 exposures, almost invariably the anxiety about that thing goes away. And we even shared that with our daughter, and whenever she would have a fear about something, she would make herself confront it 11 times. And often she would lose count at seven or eight, and it would never bother her again. And so, yeah, all the revisions, I got lots of exposure. And I, and, and I wasn't even, I wasn't even feeling them at all by the time I was in revisions.
Lilly 29:32
Human connection, good for mental health.
Chris 29:34
Yes.
Lilly 29:35
Heard it here probably not first.
Chris 29:38
Right.
Sara 29:39
you talk in your afterword to the book how important it was to get the family dynamic right between all of the characters. Can you tell us a little bit about pitfalls that you were, like, specifically trying to avoid?
Chris 29:51
Yeah. Well, there was one. There was one really big one, and that is I wanted to be fair to Allison, the mother. Y- you know, I often think that a woman's or a mother's protective instinct of her child and how she, how she goes about protecting her child can often be read by people not, not familiar with early motherhood, not, you know, haven't experienced it, can be read as irrational and angry and aggressive and unnecessary. And so I wanted to be really careful about how I treated Allison and make sure that I didn't turn up her reactions beyond what I thought a reasonable person would, would do. I think that you know, and it's pointed out by the characters in the book that I think that based on what was in front of Allison, she was correct. And, and I, you know, I really wanted that to be very clear. And, and I didn't want this to be one of those nasty mom books, right? And I absolutely didn't wanna do that. So she was the one I was most concerned about because men can do all sorts of bad stuff and they're just awesome. And no one-- They, they get a pass for all sorts of bad shit, and women don't at all, right? I mean, I saw it in my-- all through my legal career that you know, my colleagues, people that I really respected and, loved as friends and who are good people, these men we would try cases and there might be a woman attorney on the other side, and she might be assertive and aggressive. And the stuff that would come out of these guys' mouths, I was just like, I was just like, "She's just doing what you guys do, and you guys are being just, like, disgusting about, you know, about her. She's not doing anything differently." And so it's a complete double standard. So I-- And it's a, it's a much higher standard that I think women are held to, especially, especially moms. And so I, I was real aware of that in the drafting. And in fact, just because I, I tend to write sometimes in dialogue I tend to write hyperbolically and, and then I have to dial myself back just to make it real, right? So I'll write it, that's the scaffolding, and then I'll, I'll dial it down. And so I was really watching what I was doing with Allison to make sure it didn't become hyperbolic or that she didn't become a caricature that we've seen so many times.
Sara 32:44
Did you find that your process for writing this book changed in any way because you were paying such close attention to, like, this specific character? Or was it generally the same as, as you do for, for all of your other writing?
Chris 33:00
No, this one was totally different actually. This was a different animal because I think this was the least purely plot-driven book that I've written. And I'm a big hound for plot, like I love good plot. Plot to me is what turns pages. But this book is much more of a character book, I think. There's a plot because I can't, I can't just write a-- I, I can't just write one of these like characters hanging out, you know, whatever. I, you know, I can't do it. There are great writers who can, but I cannot. So it, there's a plot that, you know, there's, there's motives, there's stakes, it moves forward. There is a ticking clock, right? But it's very much more a study of the characters. And so, you know, to answer your question, I, I think I was... As I was writing it, I was like, "Is this book about anything?" because I'm so used to going plot, plot, plot, plot, plot. And I was like, "Man, maybe this thing's boring. Maybe nothing is happening." and so at about, when I got to about 100 pages, and I forget, maybe that's at the, in the book, that's probably where part two starts, where you get this time jump and you get another surprise. I, I think I stopped writing at that point and then I outlined the rest. I had to like kind of set up what I thought the beats would be and how the temperature slowly rises in the last two acts. So that's, again, I hadn't really thought about that, but I think you're right that, yeah, this one was different from all the others.
Lilly 34:37
Well, we have infinitely more questions and thoughts, but for any listeners who want to avoid spoilers, we would like to honor that. And so I think we should move on to the spoiler section. Before we do, Sarah, who should read this book?
Sara 34:53
You should read this book first if you have an iron stomach for fictional child abuse and animal cruelty because there is a significant amount of that in this book. And if that's not your thing, then you should probably not read this book. But if you don't mind that or if you can, if you could read that in fictional form and you like haunted house stories, even though this is more than just a haunted house story, I think you will really enjoy this book. Also stressful character-driven horror.
Chris 35:25
are, those are good points and, and I, I'm actually a big believer in content warnings, and I forgot to put it in this one. I, in my, like, last two books, I I had content warnings, and then I was like, "Okay," you know, as we're going through edits, I was like, you know, "Remember to put that in there," and then didn't. But it's-- They're easily... The great thing nowadays is you could just go look up content warnings for books, and you can, you could find it. But yeah, no, there are some sections with some extreme animal cruelty. I did it as necessary to the story, but they're still very much there, and they're, they're evocative, even though a lot of it is off screen. But yeah, it's-- I, I was leaning in as hard as I could there, for sure, 'cause I needed, I needed that character to be that character.
Lilly 36:08
It's interesting, especially with horror and content warnings, because there is some degree where I think, "Hey, this is horror," does do a lot of the heavy lifting. Unlike, you know, if, if you're just kind of wandering into a fantasy novel and suddenly there's something gory, you're like, "What the hell? I wasn't expecting it."
Chris 36:29
Yeah. I think-- So I have I probably started from the, from the point of view that I was like, "Content warnings? What are you talking about?" Like, you're, you're reading horror, right? And then I came very, very-- I did a full, like, very hard 180, and I was like, there are many ways to give content warnings that don't spoil anything. There are people who aren't using content warnings necessarily to avoid reading, but to just be aware so that they're not kind of hit over the head with it. They know it's coming. One of my very good friends, she's a writer, and there's a few things that for her are big issues. She won't skip a book because of them, but she was like, "I don't wanna re-traumatize myself. So if I know they're there, if I know this general subject is there, then I'm prepared for it, and I can, you know, be ready for it when it, when it comes in." So I'm, I'm pretty much in favor of them. I don't think-- There's, there's, I got in an argument on a panel once about this with this guy and and I was like, "You know what? You know, the, the, the good thing is that, that books, once they're out, they never go away. And if you see a content warning and you need to pass it this time, you can always come back and revisit it, you know, and without traumatizing yourself." So I'm a pretty big advocate of them 'cause you don't hurt, you don't hurt anything.
Lilly 37:59
Yeah. There's literally no downside.
Sara 38:03
I mean, and, and I find that for me for, for the kind of reader that I am, sometimes I really want to know what's going to happen because then I can like you were saying, I can prepare for it, like, in advance, and it's not-- it's m- makes the reading experience less stressful.
Lilly 38:22
Oh, I did. I spoiled this book for you.
Sara 38:24
yes, yes.
Chris 38:26
Oh, for real?
Sara 38:31
This episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by Solstitia.
Lilly 38:34
That's our zine. Each issue has a different theme that celebrates genre and genre blending in a new way.
Sara 38:41
PDF, and Epub versions can be purchased on our website and Patreon, supporters of all levels get free digital copies.
Lilly 38:49
You can find all of the issues and more at patreon.com/fiction fans pod. Thank you for all of your support.
Sara 38:56
The remainder of this episode contains spoilers. So Lily told me it was, it was a happy ending.
Lilly 39:06
Sarah, we're not in the spoiler section yet.
Sara 39:08
I thought we were.
Lilly 39:09
Okay, we can be.
Chris 39:11
We are. Yay, we made it. We're here.
Sara 39:15
I thought, I thought you were just gonna put the, our regular stuff somewhere in there.
Lilly 39:18
we never s- paused in the conversation. I'll find a place.
Sara 39:23
There's, there's a pl- we can make a play, or you can just cut that.
Chris 39:26
Now we're
Lilly 39:26
did, I finished it before Sarah did, and I texted her and said, "Would you like a spoiler?" to be fa- yeah, I didn't spoil it without warning.
Chris 39:34
Got it. Got
Sara 39:35
Yeah. And, and I d- I did knowing that there was a happy ending. I mean, and I, I was pretty sure that you wouldn't do that to me. But
Lilly 39:46
range of unacceptable and
Chris 39:50
Well
Sara 39:50
but knowing, knowing that there was a happy ending did make it easier for me to enjoy the book as it, as it came.
Chris 39:59
Yeah. I would say-- I would actually characterize it as a non-traumatic ending. I don't know that it's happy you know,
Sara 40:09
I also don't know if I would call it non-traumatic
Lilly 40:12
Actually, I would say it was traumatic and happy. You can't take that away from me,
Chris 40:16
It was-- Okay, it is traumatic and could be worse, right? And, and in fact, now that we're in the spoiler section until the copy edits, which is the very end of the, you know, the editing phase of the book the copy editor made me change the ending. Didn't make me, but suggested I should, and I did. And I always, always listen. Whenever, whenever an editor says, "Hey, I think this," or whatever, I always kinda go, I always kinda like go, "Okay, let me go through this." Because I always wanna make the right decision for the story. And this copy editor goes through, does all the copy edits, typos, all that stuff, and at the very end leaves like a note. And the note said "I really enjoyed this book. I know it's horror, so, you know, I know sometimes they have endings like this, but I don't think Allison should die." And I was like, I sat back and I was like, Yeah, you're actually totally right." 'Cause Allison died in the original. and so all I had to do was go back to the HVAC guy and have him go open that vent, and that was, that gave her the way out. So, I, just because I tend to, to, to drift to bleakness, I was like, "Well, I gotta kill somebody." but it was right for the story not to, and I'm really glad that the copy editor kind of went out of his lane a little bit and said, "You shouldn't, you shouldn't end it this way." And I was like, "Yeah, I think you're right." So, you know, props to him. And and, and I still got to do the big moment where-- 'Cause, 'cause I was so in love with the, that mic drop moment where the neighbor walks up and says, "I'm so, so sorry." And Nathan's like, "What are you talking about? It's just a house. Like, we'll be okay." She's like, "No. You know, Allison was in the house." I still got to do that, right? But it was the, it was the better ending. This-- After that story, I don't think you kill one of the characters. I think they, they come through. So I think it was the better, the better ending, and I'm so glad he suggested that.
Sara 42:29
And you could argue that you do kill a character. You kill
Chris 42:32
Oh, for sure. For sure.
Sara 42:35
Andy.
Chris 42:35
And it's very sad, honestly. Like, Andy's just-- Andy just he's not a human. He thinks he is. You know, he thinks that he's-- he understands. And that's why it's so tragic for poor old Andy. But yeah, I mean, Andy dies for sure
Sara 42:52
Andy needs house, a house therapist
Lilly 42:56
Is that an interior designer? Is that what a house therapist is?
Chris 43:02
man, poor Andy, man. It's been rough
Lilly 43:05
So, oh, that's so interesting. I feel like if Allison had died, it would've felt like the story passing judgment on her and put her into a villain role.
Chris 43:16
Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree with you. I agree with you. I didn't see it that way, but that's how it would've been read. Okay, you're completely correct. Yeah
Lilly 43:26
I assume that's the character that people said they didn't like, that you were like, "Why?
Chris 43:31
Yeah.
Lilly 43:32
How dare?"
Chris 43:33
now, now it's been... The, the people who forget that Allison doesn't know that the house is pulling the strings are the ones that are like, "I hated Allison. She was so mean." And I'm like, everything in front of her literally... 'Cause Allison and Nathan assume they're living in the real world.
Sara 43:52
They don't know they're in a haunted house story
Lilly 43:55
Yeah
Chris 43:56
they don't know. And and based on everything in front of them, Leila is the culprit. You know, they have seen Leila do stuff in front of them, right? Allison saw that. She licked the baby's face, right? Leila is, is, is guilty. That's, that's what all the circumstantial evidence says. And so she's correct. And I just, I just need people to remember that, you know? I have seen some, in some reviews, they're just like, "Nathan's the worst. What... That typical husband." And I'm like, okay. Th- that's fine. That's fine, too. That's fine, too
Lilly 44:35
Not to harp on too much about how I'm a new mom and everything is about that, but I actually found Layla's character and situation much harder to read about than the baby. And I maybe it's just 'cause I'm very good at compartmentalizing or because my own baby was in my arms and perfectly fine while I was reading it. But the, the existential future of an, a un- unwanted child was much, much harder to read about, I think. Her and then, like you mentioned, Nathan's backstory
Chris 45:09
Yeah. Well, yeah, I, I agree with you. I, I think, I think the real tension in the story is much more for Laila. Look, newborn babies don't have personalities. If you're their parent, you love them. If you're not, eh, you know. they just eat and poop and scream if you're somebody else, right? No, Laila, you know, and Laila is trying. It's-- You're right. She's dangling over this chasm. She's trying so hard to be good and so hard to be unobtrusive. And yeah, I think your heart's gonna go to that character first, i- over, over the, you know, the baby who is just kind of being, being used by this house, right, to try to kick Laila out
Sara 45:58
Well, and especially I think because as the reader, like you know that or you, you think you know that Layla is completely innocent. Yes, she has these intrusive thoughts that are somehow coming to life. But as the reader, you suspect that that's not Layla, although you do a really good job at keeping that tension for the reader of, is it Layla? Is it the house? What's going on?
Chris 46:24
Yeah. Well, thank you because, because I, I, I really wanted to portray Layla as if you know this character, there's no way she would do this, right? And you, you're gonna suspect the house, but this-- the house has legitimate trauma. The house is going to try to do what it can to protect the family, and the house is telling you, the reader, "She is dangerous." Like, "I have seen this before." And then you have Layla giving in a few times. So yeah. So I just, I just wanted to do enough to make you as the reader go, "Man, is he gonna pull the rug out? Is this gonna, is it gonna be Layla after all?" Right? And that's really all I need to do is just a, a few little kernels. Didn't have to have her do anything super extreme. But, you know, and she, she clearly disappears sometimes like when she's, you know, sitting there cuddling the chickens and she accidentally rips the feathers out. You know? I mean, so she, she, she has a lot... She's a ball of anxiety, this kid. And sometimes she doesn't have full control of her, of her body.
Lilly 47:32
So I was not expecting a house POV when I opened this book, and maybe more haunted house stories should have that.
Chris 47:40
Agreed
Lilly 47:42
Can you tell us more about Andy? I, I mean, I know I read a whole book about it, but him, it, I
Chris 47:49
Well, it's, it's, it's it, but it has taken on the, the sort of I guess gender identity of a male just based on one of his heroes,
Lilly 48:00
Yeah
Chris 48:01
you know? Which is revealed later in the book, right? Andy is because Andy's a narcissist. I think Andy's a narcissist, but Andy is also not inherently malevolent. I, I started writing the book without a house POV and just stuff was happening, and I probably got 80 or 90 pages in and I was like, "No one is gonna figure out..." Sh- 'cause I was like, I want the reader to, to think, "Okay, the house is haunted or the house is alive and it's good." And then I need the reader to recognize consciously that now the house is turning on one of the people in the house. And man, that was so jumbled without having the house as POV. It was impossible. It really was impossible. And so I just started, I just started writing as the house, and the second I started writing, I had this voice, this sort of, this sort of pious, almost pedantic voice, and I loved it. I was like, "This is how a house that has been sitting for 100 years would sound." The house has seen shit. The house knows more than any other human because the house has been exposed to so much, it's soaked up so much. And the house would be like I think I, I said it in another podcast, have you guys ever seen "Midnight Mass"?
Sara 49:29
No
Chris 49:29
Okay. There is a, I forget her name. There's an actress who plays this very very pious, woman who, like, she's a church lady, and she is convinced that she is doing right to, to the extent of doing all this damage, and that-that's Andy. And yeah. So, so I remember the first chapter I wrote was just him telling the story of the Ragsdales and then about how, how houses are a sponge and, and all this, 'cause I was kind of trying to figure out what a house would be. And then it was later that I went in and I put the early Andy chapters where you're like, "Is this some old neighbor?" Like, "Who is this guy?" Like, talking about, like, the neighborhood through the years and all of this. I just wanted to introduce and just be like, "Oh, you're gonna assume this is a neighbor in the cul-de-sac or whatever." And and then there's that fun reveal where the-- Miss Bethany is over and she's like, "It's a good house." And Nathan's like, "It's a good house," and turn the page, and Andy's like, "I am a good house." Right? I was like, "Yeah, that's-- this, this hits." Like, I haven't read anything like that where you just go, "Okay, the author's just gonna lean in. We're gonna, we're gonna get the, the haunted house's perspective or the house's perspective." I had not seen that. I've definitely experienced sentient house books, but not one that is just like, "We're putting the house front and center in front of the reader. You're gonna, you're gonna get the house as a full POV."
Lilly 50:59
I, I wanted to show you my marginalia. Oh, is it gonna be blurry?
Sara 51:02
It's blurry
Lilly 51:04
Well, I just wrote, "Whoa."
Chris 51:07
Oh, on that, on that reveal?
Lilly 51:09
I am a good house, yeah.
Chris 51:10
Nice.
Sara 51:12
It was a good reveal
Lilly 51:14
so were the Ragsdales and that previous family not originally part of the story until you started including Andy's POV, or was that backstory always kind of in your head?
Chris 51:28
Nope. Nope, they were not there. so much of writing a character, you need a character to do something. Well, you need a reason. You need, you need their motive, and so you need to explain why they would see things a certain way. And I needed Andy to see Laila as dangerous, as an enemy, and it came late actually. I- in the earlier versions, Laila the, the reason the house wanted to get rid of Laila was because they were going to have to move 'cause they had Evan, and it got too-- and, and it got too small, so they decided to move. So the house was like, "I'm gonna get rid of her." And that's good as a surface-level motive, but you try to write that, it's actually kind of boring. It's like, okay, they, they have to move. How long is it gonna take for them to move? And then the house is gonna try to get rid of her. So, so the intrusive thoughts came late. Not late, but not in the first draft. That wasn't part of the story. and then I was like, "Okay, so she's gonna-- the, the, the house is gonna believe she's dangerous." And I was like, that, that could be enough on its own, but what if I gave the house a past experience that this new child reminded him of? And he was like, "Oh, no, no, no. We're not doing this again." And I think that is when it really clicked. So it was just kind of just to go, "Well, this is motive enough, but I can make this stronger." So I gave him this background and weaving in the Ragsdales was-- Those Ragsdales chapters, I mean, I think they're highly entertaining.
Lilly 53:09
Yeah. That is fascinating. I have this whole bulletin board with like quotes and strings between them about how Andy talking about the Ragsdales, and he had expelled the, you know, like the evil from his guts, except clearly he had absorbed more of it than he thought, which is why he was so sadistic now, and apparently that was all maybe I read too
Chris 53:34
but no, you didn't. Because remember when you, you go in and you backfill all this stuff. You're exactly right. A- and you're the first person actually to say it, which is it's set up when Andy is talking about houses and how they're a sponge and they soak in the residue of their people, Andy starts to become Ronald without knowing it.
Lilly 53:58
It was so clear to me that he got the ideas for his terrorizing the family from what Ronald had been doing
Chris 54:04
Yes. The, the-- he's using the things in the worry box, so he's, he's bringing the things in the worry box to life. But he has seen it before. It's a learned behavior. Yes, it's a learned behavior, and you're exactly right. That's, that is what I was trying to do, but, but it wasn't what I was trying to do in the first draft 'cause I didn't even have that stuff. But it was later on as I was refining it and adding in those pieces that I was like, "Oh my God, this works so well on so many different levels." That, that he's-- he, he has seen Ronald. He hates Ronald. He doesn't want another Ronald. He's terrified. And he starts reading the entries in the worry box and he's like, "Oh my God, she's, she's gonna become Ronald." And so he's like, "How do I save the family? Well, she's already planted all these confessions in this box, so if I make them come real, they'll blame her and get rid of her." And so the cruelty, he doesn't realize the cruelty that he's enacting, that he learned from Ronald. So you're 100% right. You're the only person-- I've done a bunch of podcasts. You're the only person who has said that, so like gold star and everything.
Sara 55:22
and I think it's so interesting because I-- like we were joking earlier about house therapists, but Andy really does need therapy. He, he just doesn't realize that he does. Like he, he thinks that he has completely, you know, separated himself from what happened with, with the Ragsdales. But as the reader, obviously that's not the case.
Chris 55:45
Oh yeah, this is a hurt people hurt people, right? Only it's the house, right? Yeah. He, he, he thinks he un- fully understands the situation and he's above, you know, you know, he's affected. He confesses he's affected by it, but he's above believing that he's acting on that now. Andy believes himself to be rational
Lilly 56:08
Uh, it was definitely, at least while I was reading it, a case of like the house doth protest too much. He insisted so much that he had gotten rid of all of the evil, and I was like, "Well, clearly you haven't."
Chris 56:20
Right, Right, I mean, typical-- I mean, he did take on the, you know, the i- the male identity. Typical mansplainer, right? Yeah. So, so yeah, you're, you're right. I mean, he's, he's, he's a tragic character because he's just misreading all of this stuff, and he's so, he's so fucked up from this previous experience that he's doing damage. This is what people do all the time.
Sara 56:47
I know you said that the Ragsdales came into the story fairly late in your writing process. Do you have any theories as to what happens to them after they leave the house?
Chris 56:57
Yeah, you know, I think, you know, Andy wonders about this himself, right?
Sara 57:02
Yeah, Andy speculates in
Chris 57:03
he speculates and he's like, you know, maybe he's already killed his parents, right? Like I think he, is probably a serial killer. And who knows? You know, I think he's, he's one of those real brazen ones, so he's probably gonna get caught, but he'll, he'll kill, he'll try to kill again. I, I think that in that very first scene in the prologue supper time you know, his parents already know who he is. Like they're, criticizing him for how he's eating, and he just stares at them and they shut up. they know what's going on with him. But they're, you know, one of those families that's like, "Well, you know, even though we've got evil under the roof, we're not gonna do anything to make the rest of the world safer. We're, we're all about survival of us. That's it." Even though they all hate each other.
Sara 57:55
Appearances and survival
Chris 57:57
Yeah, exactly
Sara 57:59
For me, I think, Ronald's portions were the hardest bit to read because even though the, the things that happened to Evan are terrible, I was like, "Evan probably is going to survive." And then I learned that it was a happy ending and I was like, "Okay, Evan is definitely going to survive." but the, the animals don't. Was it similarly hard to write or did knowing the use that it had for the plot make that easier?
Chris 58:30
That well, it made, made it so I knew I was justified in doing it. But it's hard. It's really hard. It's-- I think I you know, I don't, I don't do a lot of animal cruelty, but when I do, I think I, I lean in very heavily to it because it's the worst thing to me. Like, it's the worst thing in the world. And some of the things that I had him do were the cruelest things I could think of because I needed it to hit. I needed it to hit. I needed to feel it so that I knew the reader would feel it. So I did some really awful, weird stuff yeah, no, those were tough to write, but at the same time as I was writing them, I'll confess, I was like, "This is good." but yes, The worst thing to me is just when he's with the other kid and it's just something that the other kid says. They have a raccoon, and the other kid says, "Do you think it can walk without hands?" And that, to me, is the worst, absolutely the worst thing that happens in the whole book. Like, that to me is, is worse than-- So actually, like, sure, like cover, cover Evan in ants, whatever, who gives a shit, right? but that poor raccoon, right? It felt so real to me. It's not real. It's-- I have to tell myself that. I, I probably traumatized myself a little bit with the animal cruelty stuff, and it's because it's, to me, it's the fucking worst thing on the planet.
Sara 1:00:05
I mean, I, I do agree with you that it was necessary for the book. Hard to read, but necessary.
Chris 1:00:10
Yeah. Right. Right. Yes
Lilly 1:00:13
All right. This is why your book actually had a happy ending. Are you...
Chris 1:00:17
Okay, no, let's hear it. Let's
Lilly 1:00:19
No, I, the f- the family, like, A, the, they gonna say no more secrets. The ghost thing wasn't a secret exactly, but the parents didn't believe their kids, obviously which is fair.
Chris 1:00:32
Right
Lilly 1:00:33
but kind of that, that clearing of the air and being able to be together as a family that's a happy ending.
Chris 1:00:38
is. No, I mean, they're all gonna be together. They, they all, they all started off loving each other, and they're going to end all loving each other, right? And that's, that's the key part. And the dog survives, right?
Lilly 1:00:51
I mean, they do absolutely go through hell. I'm not arguing against that.
Sara 1:00:56
Like, I would also agree that it was a happy ending. Traumatic, yes. But again, they do-- they, they end up together. No one is dead despite first drafts. And yeah, they, they are back to loving each other and can have conversations and trust each other. And so I, I think it's a happy ending.
Chris 1:01:16
Yeah, no, I think so too. And, and the, the thing that I think keeps it grounded is that Layla's not miraculously cured, right? Th- she's still gonna suffer from this. You get that very last line in the book that tells you, "Hey, she's, she's still dealing with this," but you know she's in the right place, right? And so you know that it's just like any other mental health issue. You know that if you're surrounded by people who understand and love you, y- that's the best place you can be. So it's-- they're set up going forward to function like a real family with real problems, and that's, hey, that's the best they could ask for in this circumstance.
Lilly 1:01:57
It did feel like Layla was maybe mature b- she was so understanding of Allison's distrust of her. It felt very mature beyond her years. But my understanding is that is common for, for kids who go through what she does in the foster system
Chris 1:02:12
So yes I, I read, I read a book and I, I should actually remember what it's called, but I read a book that was it was like 12 different accounts of adoption and fostering. And it was like, you know, it was almost like reading a short story collection, but these were all true accounts. And I, I saw that very quickly. These kids grow up really fast. But, but I will just say, I will just say though 12-year-old girls, of which I have one are extremely perceptive and understand at least the one that I live with understands what's going on with her parents and is pretty perceptive. even though she may not you know, show a sign of it and then later say something and you're like, "Oh, you understood what was going on, like fully you understood all the nuance of what was happening." But no, I, I read, I read that book and then I spent a lot of time on forums adoption forums for parents and some, some kids who had aged out, you know, their accounts. It's a real sobering perspective to read because they-- you, you- your heart breaks for the childhood they didn't get to have cause they were so hypervigilant, you know? So yeah, she, I, I, I think she reads as mature for sure. But I think that's probably accurate.. And it's different in every state. I mean, I, I tried to-- As I was writing the CPS sections with the visits, I was like, "I gotta get these right." And then pretty much what I learned is it's different everywhere.
Lilly 1:03:57
Mhm
Chris 1:03:58
some places do house visits, some don't. Like, so I was like, "This'll be fine," like, ha- setting it up like this 'cause in some places that's how it works.
Sara 1:04:05
You only need so much accuracy
Chris 1:04:08
Yeah. Yeah. Enough, enough to get the reader on board, and then, and then you've got a living house,
Lilly 1:04:14
Yeah.
Chris 1:04:15
right? What are you gonna talk to me about accuracy? How many ha- living houses you know?
Sara 1:04:20
I mean, I do now worry what my parents' house voice might be because they live in a house that's like 110 years old or something.
Chris 1:04:28
Oh, nice.
Sara 1:04:29
and I haven't been, been back there since reading this book.
Chris 1:04:33
Mhm.
Sara 1:04:35
Next time I go, I'm gonna be wondering.
Chris 1:04:37
Yeah, just, you know, put your ear to the wall and see what you hear
Lilly 1:04:41
Yeah. You need to start a worry box, but just write like, "Wow, this is such a lovely home.
Chris 1:04:46
Yes. Yes. Just kiss
Lilly 1:04:48
am glad this house does nothing wrong."
Chris 1:04:50
that's amazing. And then go and, like, make sure there's air coming out of all the vents
Lilly 1:04:57
Kris, thank you so much for joining us for this conversation. I had a great time reading your book. Sarah had a reasonable time reading your book.
Chris 1:05:05
Sarah had a, a time
Sara 1:05:07
Look, I, I really, I really enjoy your writing.
Lilly 1:05:10
Yeah.
Sara 1:05:11
So it was, it was a well-written book, and I enjoyed it on that level, even if it stressed me out
Chris 1:05:17
I appreciate that. Yeah
Lilly 1:05:19
So it sounds like we have some exciting things to look forward to coming from you
Chris 1:05:24
Yeah, there's a, there's a lot actually. I wrote a witch book and that comes out in April from Shortwave Publishing. It is called "Kill Me With Fire," and it is about two women who fall victim to a dormant curse turning them into feral witches. One of them resists and the other doesn't. So that's, that's that one. And that one I was writing with a writing partner at the time Wendy Wagner, who's up in your area of the country. She wrote "Girl in the Creek" and she was editor of "Nightmare Magazine" up until just this year. And I'm just gonna tell you, that's a-- There's baby eating in it, just, just content warning. That comes out in April and then next summer is my next Angry Robot book and that is called "So You Want to Summon a Demon." And that's a, that's a interesting one. That's basically the-- I'm still working on the pitch for that, but I think it's basically a demon is the result of a book burning basically. There's a book burning, a demon is released. So there's that and then "Daytide" is coming either next fall or early '28. Not totally sure on that. So that's kind of what's in the queue right now.
Sara 1:06:46
You are busy.
Chris 1:06:47
yeah, I know. I know. But it's like, it's a dream come true honestly, an absolute dream come true. if seven years ago Chris that hadn't published anything, if you told that Chris what this Chris is doing, he'd be like, you're lying. Go away." You know? I'm, I'm so happy that I have a writing career and it's really you know, as long as I can keep publishing books anywhere, I really don't care. I'm happy
Sara 1:07:14
Well, and as long as you keep publishing books, we will be happy to talk to you about them, even if they are horror.
Chris 1:07:20
Well, I really think, I really think you will, you will love "Daytide."
Sara 1:07:26
I'm looking forward to it. Yeah.
Chris 1:07:28
yeah, that one, that one-- we were always kind of pitching it as black metal "Wizard of Oz," which is a great, like, vibes pitch, but what does that mean? And, and you read it and you'll go, "Okay, I understand that." But now I had to, like, because we're gonna do an announcement, we haven't even actually announced it, but it's fine to talk about it. But we'll do a publisher's marketplace announcement when we get approval to do it. And so I've been working with, like, how do I even talk about what this book is? And the one sentence we've come up with is, or two sentences is "Humanity is ravaged by a ruthless psychological pandemic, and the answers to why may lie in an alternative realm of cosplaying angels drunk on turpentine."
Sara 1:08:18
I love
Lilly 1:08:18
All right
Chris 1:08:20
I mean, I, I, I would read that book. I would read that.
Sara 1:08:25
I abs- I mean, I already wanted to read the book, but I need this in my life.. Before you leave, where can you be found on the internet for listeners who wanna keep up with your very busy release schedule?
Chris 1:08:36
Sure. Chris Panatier at Instagram, Scribe of Hades on Blue Sky. For the few haints that are still hanging around on Blue Sky, my peeps. I'm Chris Panatier on Threads, chrispanatier.com. So pretty much my name everywhere. I'm not hard to find
Lilly 1:08:56
Thank you so much
Chris 1:08:57
Yeah. Thank you guys. It was awesome seeing you
Sara 1:09:03
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.
Lilly 1:09:07
Come disagree with us! We're on BlueSky and Instagram at fictionfanspod. You can also email us at fictionfanspod at gmail. com or leave a comment on YouTube.
Sara 1:09:18
If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.
Lilly 1:09:25
We also have a Patreon, where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.
Sara 1:09:32
Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye!
