Editor Interview with Atlin Merrick
- Fiction Fans
- 23 hours ago
- 34 min read
Episode 237
Release Date: June 3, 2026
Your hosts are joined by Atlin Merrick, editor at Improbable Press, to talk about tips for submissions, common missteps writers make when talking with publishers, what the editing process is like from their side, and the joys of fanfiction.
Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:
- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
Episode Transcript*
*this transcript is generated by Descript, please excuse the mess.
Lilly 0:04
Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily.
Sara 0:10
And I'm Sarah and I'm delighted to welcome Atlin Merrick, author and commissioning editor at Improbable Press onto the podcast today to chat with us.
Atlin 0:19
Thank you. Thank you. Met you both at World Con, which we were just talking about being an entire delight. So thank you for inviting me.
Sara 0:28
Yeah, thank you for coming on to, to talk.
Lilly 0:31
Well, we have a great list of conversation topics today, but first are introduction questions. What's something great that happened this week?
Atlin 0:41
It actually happened this morning. I have a friend, we have different fandoms though. We met in a central one, but now we have different fandoms, so we created a sort of third fandom to enjoy together. And in our dms, we like what we call snowball, and we come up with so many ideas that I'm like, why aren't we putting this on a O three? But it's, it's for us. And we just snowballed so funny today that I'm, I'm literally like typing away laughing. So to me that's, that's when you have writer friends and or fandom friends, generally, they can be both. There's just so much sort of crazy joy. So I had some crazy joy this morning
Lilly 1:29
That's wonderful.
Sara 1:30
That is delightful. I love that.
Atlin 1:33
snowballing, that's what we call it. And it really feels like that they add something, I add something, they add something.
Sara 1:40
That's the best kind of collaboration.
Atlin 1:42
yes, yes. You're both like, and, and, and like little kids. And, and, and instead of. No, but how I see it, no. This is the yes and which is so fun.
Lilly 1:56
Sarah?
Sara 1:57
My good thing is I went to the theater on Thursday and really enjoyed the, the play that I saw which was nice.
Atlin 2:05
Can we ask what play.
Sara 2:06
Yeah, it was called H How Shakespeare Saved My Life at the Berkeley Rep by Jacob Ming. Trent, I think was the the playwright and actor's name. It was a one man show autobiographical, semi autobiographical, I think mostly just fully autobiographical about his experiences as a child and growing up and really fantastic. I, I know that he's touring I think he said Chicago DC and New York at least. And so if you're anywhere around there and can go see it, I would highly recommend it.
Atlin 2:41
Cool.
Lilly 2:42
And you haven't loved the last couple of plays you went to see, so it's a nice
Sara 2:46
Yeah, that was, that was partly, partly why this was particularly a good thing because the, the things that I've seen so far this season have not all been as enjoyable.
Atlin 2:59
Mm-hmm. It, I did a degree in London that had us seeing a lot of plays and even at like the national theater and all that. And that happens a lot, doesn't it?
Sara 3:11
It, yeah. It, it can, I mean, there's a lot of really good theater out there, but as with books, not everything is for every person. And sometimes things are also just bad.
Atlin 3:24
Yes. And then you wonder who do you have something on,
Sara 3:28
Yes.
Lilly 3:30
Well, my good thing is a little lame, but I just had a really good day at work yesterday. It's very simple, but
Sara 3:37
Hmm.
Lilly 3:38
a lot of things like projects I've been working really hard on, like all paid off on the same day, which was just a nice feeling.
Atlin 3:45
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I don't know if you've ever listened to cabin Pressure but John Finmore has a character basically saying, Eating the perfect apple, settling into a perfectly temperature tub. There's loads of those moments. There is not, you know, on the hillside for a sunset with your one true love moments very often. So it's lovely to have just a great day at work because, you know, those are more common.
Sara 4:17
Yeah.
Lilly 4:18
And deserve to be celebrated.
Sara 4:19
and they don't always happen.
Lilly 4:21
That's also true.
Atlin 4:23
Yeah. But that one, true love on a hillside. Those are really rare. So
Lilly 4:28
Who has time to find all those hills?
Atlin 4:30
yeah. Yes.
Lilly 4:33
What is everyone drinking today? Mm.
Atlin 4:36
Me coffee, tea and coffee are my friends.
Sara 4:41
I've got a, a Jasmine Green Tea.
Atlin 4:43
Hmm.
Lilly 4:44
Lovely Atlin. Are you a, a black coffee drinker or do you doctor it up?
Atlin 4:49
It's black. It's black. When I go out, I might get a latte because I can't make a latte at home, but I do love black punch me in the face. Coffee.
Lilly 5:01
Wonderful. I am drinking sparkling cherry juice. It's the bottle said pomegranate, but I tasted it and it was like, this is not pomegranate, and you look at the ingredients and it's, the first one is cherry. So I was like, okay. That makes sense.
Atlin 5:14
Is that your usual vibe or is it, you know, an incubating vibe for,
Lilly 5:21
Yes. I, uh, am not drinking alcohol at the moment due to powers, I guess not beyond my control technically, but, due, due to being pregnant. But I have been very well hydrated lately, so that's an upside.
Atlin 5:36
Yes. Yes.
Lilly 5:38
And has anyone read anything good lately? I, I will start with I've been buried under podcast reading. The book we're reading for this week is very long and has some very dense technical like science conversations in it. So that has been all I have done.
Atlin 5:55
So what I've been reading is a lot of nonfiction lately, and the one that's kind of doing my head in is called Fluke by Brian class. And the subtitle is Chance Chaos and Why Everything We Do Matters. And it basically is what it says on the tin. There is nothing the smallest of us can do that doesn't affect someone else, and they affect someone else and so on. And
Sara 6:24
sounds relevant to, to things happening in the world right now.
Atlin 6:29
yes, there's so many examples in there, and you're like. Okay, I can swear. You're like, motherfucker. What? Literally some small thing that happened 20 years ago. Changed what city was bombed with the first bombs dropped. You know why Hiroshima was bombed instead of who was supposed to be bombed? Kyoto
Lilly 6:54
Wow.
Atlin 6:55
And it was one guy's really good vacation 20 years previous.
Lilly 7:00
Wow.
Atlin 7:01
So, and he was nobody, you know, nobody in terms of, you know, not president of some country or whatever. So anyway, it's fascinating books.
Sara 7:12
Similarly to Lily, I have, I have been stuck in our, our next podcast read, which has a lot of very dense, science discussion that quite frankly, goes a little bit over my head. I am not a scientist. And so my, my eyes do glaze over just a little bit when they start getting into the weeds about, about some of the some of the things they're discussing.
Atlin 7:35
Is it story necessary or is it, I'm showing off.
Lilly 7:40
It, it feels like the author's special interest, so the author has a PhD and so I don't think he realizes how over everyone's head it is.
Sara 7:50
Yeah. Yeah. I, I think the author understands this very clearly. And as kind of assumes that everyone else will too.
Atlin 8:00
Right, Now I wonder who edited the book.
Lilly 8:03
It was self-published and I'm not sure he had an editor.
Atlin 8:06
Okay.
Lilly 8:07
Yeah. And you can tell. But speaking of editing,
Sara 8:11
Yes.
Lilly 8:13
Atlin, you are an editor at Improbable Press. How long have you been with them? How long have you been editing?
Atlin 8:20
I've been editing for Improbable Press since it was born. The person who originally started it said here, and so 11 years. But before that I worked for WebMD and I was an editor there, so I went from nonfiction, health content to genre fiction. Essentially. We started as Sherlock Holmes publisher, and then went into basically genre stuff, speculative fiction, mostly. So, yeah, so well over 20 years at as an editor and 11 with Improbable.
Sara 8:55
is editing something that you like intended to be your career from the start, or did you just kind of fall into the, this role at at WebMD?
Atlin 9:04
I fell into it at WebMD, and I really, really like it. However, every editor I've personally talked with editing for some reason will kneecap your writing. Not because you, you overed yourself, but because it, it completely turns on a different brain and it's very hard to get that brain back again. Not because you're self editing too much, but I don't know. You, you went down one path, so now you have to traverse all the way back to get back onto the writing path. So.
Sara 9:42
wonder if it's something because you're, you're so focused as an editor, you're so focused on the technical side. It's harder to, to turn on that creative side or turn, turn back on that creative side.
Atlin 9:53
I would love to know what it is because if you enjoy both, it's a little bit upsetting to not get to do both. But, and, and, you know, you do do both. You just don't do them as well as you might hope, at least in my experience, talking to other editors. And hence, I guess sometimes fan fiction because it gives you a mental freedom to still write your best, but nobody's over there over your shoulder watching, so you can just like shake off things and get back into the flow.
Lilly 10:32
Yeah. That is very justifying to me. I, my degree is in writing and I write when I can, but I specifically chose a career that has nothing to do with that because I knew if I was writing for my day job, I would not have any energy left to do it for myself.
Atlin 10:49
Mm-hmm.
Lilly 10:50
Yeah.
Atlin 10:51
I have the energy to write. I just don't, if I, if I like with WebMD, short story, WebMD, occasionally I would be writing FIC while I was like maybe editing an article, and I would have to make sure I was sending the correct thing back. Because if I sent Sherlock porn to my editor, that's not good.
Lilly 11:15
Yeah.
Atlin 11:16
But, but editing, for me, it's editing. I can see how it would be definitely writing and then writing. And at this point I am, I'm, I'm ready to be like, okay, I wanna work at the bakery up the street. Something completely different. So I, I feel you, Lily,
Lilly 11:35
What has changed about the industry since you've started?
Atlin 11:39
this sort of segues into a, a question you have later. I would say for me personally, 'cause I'm, I run a small press, so there's certain things we're just not gonna see as much, but I would say ai, but not as directly as you might think for us. But to me the big change is AI in the overall world of publishing and the grievous acceptance of fan fiction tropes to market books, but only certain kinds. They center heterosexual white people usually. It's, those things are, are different.
Lilly 12:28
Yeah. The rise of what I consider like tag marketing, right? Like using what I think of as fanfiction tags in marketing content has been really strange to see. Like part of me is like, oh, you, you guys aren't allowed to know about this.
Atlin 12:43
And, and it's, it's, it's, yeah, the fact that they know, but then that they're using it in a way that it is kind of icky, you know, it's like you're using it to use people's almost emotions to get them whether it's pretty applicable or not. And again, it does tend to be used to center stories that are not inclusive.
Lilly 13:10
Yeah.
Sara 13:11
Well, and I, I think that it's interesting also the, the increase in published books that, that were previously fan fiction. And I think that that also to, to your point Atlin, that that also tends to be, you know, white heteronormative romances that, that get pulled like that.
Atlin 13:36
And there's a really great article I didn't read it. I can find it if you're curious, but it's a really great article that I read that listed some of the current turned from Fanfic stories and Depressingly depressingly. They really centered on dumb sub stuff where, where it was always the woman who was submissive. Oh, sure. She's a high powered attorney except at night. When he dominates her so wonderfully and on and on. In other words, it's just more of the same, only whether it's slightly different wrapping, you know, tags and fanfic calling it generated from Fanfic, but it's, it's traditional publishing that is not giving us anything new.
Lilly 14:26
Not pushing the envelope.
Atlin 14:28
exactly.
Lilly 14:29
Yeah. You mentioned the changes that AI have brought to the industry. what have you seen personally, just out of curiosity, are you getting a lot of submissions that look suspicious?
Atlin 14:41
Well, I was thinking about that this morning historically, maybe twice, three times a year. I can't batshit queries like absolutely batshit stuff and. Up until recently, I would've said, okay, these are just batshit people. But now I wonder, was some of it ai? I know AI is fairly recent, like the domination of it, so it really doesn't cover years worth of batshit. But my most recent one, first they tend to be in all caps. They tend to be in multiple fonts and or colors. So right there you're already like, what is happening here? But this most recent one said, I am a marketing genius with over 100 million followers across social medias. I am this, that, and the other thing. And I'm like, you are, you are not any of those things. That's not possible. And so now I wonder if it's. Maybe going to become more, because AI goes sort of with, as we know, it goes with the dominant voice, which is privileged male and all these really weird ones have come from male identified names. And with these grandiose, grandiose statements of I am, and you should get on this before someone else does. So that's what I've seen in terms of ai. I've not seen stories, you know, sent to me that are like I've seen bad stories and I can tell you why those were bad, but not anything that felt as bonkers as some of these queries. And I mean, some, I save these queries. I'm like, ha, is this a language issue? Like, are you thinking this is how you address people? I don't know. The multiple fonts, colors, and all caps signifies to me. No, it's not a language barrier. It is a
Lilly 16:54
Very confident individual.
Sara 16:57
Or
Atlin 16:57
di yes or something. I'm gonna go with that, Sarah. It's or something.
Lilly 17:03
That's fun. We've been getting I would say just in the last like month or two review requests that are ve very clearly all written with the same AI prompt or something, like, they have the same cadence. They all start with getting our, the name of our podcast slightly wrong. And then it will like give a, I really liked your most recent episode about X, Y, and Z, which in the past I would've loved a review request that sounded like they actually listened to the podcast, but I kind of don't think that's the case here.
Atlin 17:36
right, right. But they actually give you the name. Is it the name you published the podcast Under
Lilly 17:43
Well, u usually they, so our, the name is Fiction Fans podcast, and then we have like the subtitle, catchphrase, like we read books in other words too, and they usually jumble it a little bit. Like they'll get half of the subtitle, but not the whole thing. Which is just like, either you would not include that or you'd include the whole thing.
Atlin 18:02
Right, right, right, right. Okay. I thought you were saying like, I recently, I enjoyed your recent podcast and specifically, you know, we're talking to thus and so, and they quoted that,
Lilly 18:15
Mm.
Atlin 18:15
but yeah. Okay. If it's just a generic, your podcast and yeah. Then.
Lilly 18:20
They will often say a sentence about a recent episode that does like, is actually about the episode, but is like clearly pulled from the episode description.
Atlin 18:30
what I mean. Yeah. It's, yeah,
Lilly 18:33
It's pretty obvious.
Atlin 18:35
Yeah, yeah,
Sara 18:36
also usually get your name wrong,
Lilly 18:38
Yeah, because I spell my name with three L's, I guess the double L in the middle.
Atlin 18:42
Right, right, right. Yeah,
Lilly 18:45
I, I give up. I mean, if it, it's funny, my bar has lowered for when I think a real person is talking to me. I'm like, well, you know, at least you're a human being.
Atlin 18:54
yeah. Yeah. I get Mr. Atlin all the time. 'cause Atlin was a name I thought I made up. And it turns out there's an Atlin Lake in Canada or something, but it's not gendered enough apparently. So as soon as somebody's like Mr. Atlin, I'm like, well, you didn't, you didn't go to the website, did you? No,
Sara 19:19
So we've talked a little bit about what has changed in the industry since you started. Is there anything that hasn't changed, do you think?
Atlin 19:26
I'm going to put my hands in a little clappy mode here again. Oh, yes. This is the thing I will talk about until the heat death of the sun. The thing that hasn't changed to my perception is writers who desperately want to publish as we all do, but who are not putting in the barest effort of reading submission guidelines. Please read the submission guidelines. If it's an anthology call for submissions, it's no more than like 250 words. It's very short. If it's a, you know, a publisher's generic submission guidelines. Maybe it's 700 words, but the point is, the thing that hasn't changed is 70% of writers will not read the submission guidelines. And so they will get rejected and rejected and rejected, and they don't have to, if they would just read the submission guidelines and believe them,
Lilly 20:37
Mm-hmm.
Atlin 20:38
you know, if we say, send us werewolves, but no vampires, please, and you read that, but you also send us a vampire, you know, we said none, please. We even said please, but, so read them and believe them, but I think that's just human nature maybe, and that may never change.
Sara 21:00
Yeah, we run a literary magazine or a fanzine. And we definitely run into that when we open submissions where we will say what we're looking for and like the length and all of that, and just get submissions that don't clearly, like they didn't bother to read what any of that.
Atlin 21:23
They didn't bother to read it or they thought they were special.
Sara 21:27
Yes.
Atlin 21:28
And it's like, you, you actually aren't, you cannot be, you ca everybody can't be special. And you know, 70% of you maybe are thinking you're special. So that means the 30% who actually listened get the attention,
Lilly 21:49
Mm-hmm.
Atlin 21:50
it's, it's really, really simple. So, I'm sorry you experienced that too, but it's, does it drive you mental.
Sara 22:00
It does. I mean, we, we only open up submissions twice a year. And we're not doing it this year because Lily is pregnant. So I don't think we have to deal with it quite as much, but it is always frustrating. You know, when, when we do have submissions open.
Atlin 22:13
yeah, yeah. It can be such a joy. Like we did some crypted books. I'm in love with those books because I love crypted, and we opened up the submissions and we got 470 stories. That's, you know, if you love the topic, that's like such an abundance. But, you know, this was a case where no werewolves, no vampires. Here's my werewolves, here's my vampires, but a bunch of other things. And it's so delightful to get the, the stuff you were hoping, but then there's like the 300 stories you, you can't possibly use because. They didn't listen, or however many, you know, we tend to have really huge windows submission windows because I love the abundance. But, you know, even getting just 20 stories or 20 responses to your, your call for submissions and, you know, 13 of them are not what you asked for. Like, uh
Sara 23:20
Well, and it also slows down the process because you still have to like read at least a little bit to, to figure out that this is not what you asked for.
Atlin 23:29
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lilly 23:32
Beyond actually reading the submission guidelines, do you have any recommendations or advice for people who are submitting their work?
Atlin 23:40
First read the submission guidelines, believe them. That will put you so far ahead of the pack. What will put you even further is if you bring humor, if you feel natural doing it, write a humorous story because of those 470 crypted stories we got, I'd say what? 450 are quite serious because that's what humans tend to do. I have a big thought. Here's my big thought told via a crypted and those 20 stories that, you know, range in making you laugh, you're like, ah, breath of fresh air to put between those serious stories. So for me, if you're submitting a call, open call for submissions, even if it's your novel, if it's natural to you to write humor. Do that because most editors probably don't see enough of it.
Lilly 24:38
Interesting. Do you, do you think that's a, a genre thing because you're in the speculative fiction space, or,
Atlin 24:44
No, because we've approached over the years, we kind of dialed this back because it doesn't super work. Well, we've approached Fanfic writers who had great, you know, funny stories and said, do you have, you know, an original book in you? You can come, you know, right along this theme. That's fine. And they'll take their humorous voice and they will go, completely dead serious.
Sara 25:14
Interesting.
Atlin 25:15
And I think that's what we've been fed so much. What literature is that? They think they're gonna write Literature and literature has to be dour.
Lilly 25:27
Yeah.
Atlin 25:29
So I think it's what we've thought real writers do.
Lilly 25:35
Yeah, which is fascinating. 'cause when I think of like, what media do I tend to consume, it tends to be what makes me laugh.
Atlin 25:43
And even if it's not the full thing, you know, you're reading along and then you're like, oh my God, I gotta remember that. I gotta tell, you know, my husband, my wife, my whomever, this great line that just punched me outta nowhere. We've got a book that's quite serious, but one of the writers just keeps dropping these hysterical moments and it, that's what life is, isn't it?
Lilly 26:08
Yeah.
Atlin 26:09
Yeah. So that, I would definitely say if you can write humor in your novel, in your short story, that will put you as part of 5% of writers.
Sara 26:21
So again, besides not reading submission guidelines what are, yeah, that's number one. What are some of, what are like the top three mistakes you see people make when submitting?
Atlin 26:33
I have another one. I, every editor I attended an editorial, talk at, I think it was Geek Girl Khan, because I wanted to see what this editor, their experience was. And she had much the same, but she did veer in some things. So every editor will give you d different answers, but another huge mistake, two of them I'll say, is rudeness. Astonishing to me how rude some writers, especially unpublished writers can be. And then the other thing is arguing. About editing, not about the edits, about editing at all.
Sara 27:16
Arguing that, oh, my book is perfect and doesn't need any editing.
Atlin 27:20
Yes. We had a book withdrawn because we were like, well, it kind of leans heavily on the interior of the character and the romance that it's meant to be about is sort of left in the dusk. Can we, can we swap that? You know, more about the romance and the mystery and less internal and they withdrew their book.
Lilly 27:42
Wow.
Atlin 27:43
I, I don't know what they thought publishing is, but apparently not that. But that's, that's when you're already down the line. The rudeness is a surprise and it comes as early as the query letters. So those are two things. please follow the guidelines and don't be rude. This is a job interview after all. You know, and I, I, I can go a little bit more into the why people might be rude, but I think that's actually, oh no, that is the question. If you're editing side collection, I will just say that a friend conveyed to me why writers are rude. I never thought of it, is 'cause they're experiencing anxiety. They don't know what they don't know. So it makes them very defensive and if you say something to a defensive person, they will lash out. So, especially brand new writers can tend toward that. Well, why are you asking that? This, you said you would accept. Mm, you know, you, they're hard to talk to because they think they're on the back foot, so. Your anxiety is real. Talk with your friend. Pretend you're on a job interview with the editor. You cannot yell at them when they're, they're being professional. You have to be professional.
Lilly 29:13
That's a great point though about people, you know, feeling out of their depth and, and, and being unsure. Could you give us just like a, a high level overview of what the process is actually like? You know, from submission to publication,
Atlin 29:26
High level is, you are going to be edited simply because what's in your head is so clear to you. But we, all of us, including me, including every editor I know, leave shit out. We, we think it's in the story, but it's in our heart. So when the editor, you know, it starts with the query, I'd like to submit thus and so, and. You reply, I'm sorry. We don't take thus. And so then how dare you? I'm, I'm trying to rewind and go back to the, the beginning. People will take a, a call for submissions and share it with their friends. They'll put it on websites including on horror websites, which we do not publish. And so we had a query, here's my horror novel. Here's this, here's that. And I said, thank you. I'm sorry we don't publish horror. How very fucking dare you put it up on a horror website then? And I said, we didn't do that. We didn't do that. Somebody else did, but now your name will stick in my head because you immediately got upset and unprofessional. But then, okay, fine. Let's just say that didn't happen and I accept your story. We're going to edit it. Nobody isn't, edit is not edited. I mean, maybe I was gonna say name some names, but they are such contentious writers now. But the high level writers might have a book that goes unedited and the reader will know because it's garbage. And you can see it's garbage. But otherwise, everybody is edited. So deal with that. And your per, your editor should be professional and say, here's what we propose. If they insist, then they're not, you're, if they insist and don't listen to you, they're not your editor. You know, they're, they're peeing in your book, so it smells like them, you know? But otherwise, it's give and take. Give and take. Explain, discuss, add this here and it'll be a little clearer. And then. The other thing that folks don't seem to understand is you are part of a queue. There are, it's almost always gonna be two years until you're published, not because it takes us that long, but because other books are in front of you. And we've had writers rage quit for that reason too. You know, it's, you're not first, you know, so if you were, if you were Nora Roberts slash jd Rob, same person, and she drops into your asks and you know, says, here's my short story, do you think you wanna publish it? Well, she is first. I'm sorry, she's first. But failing that really, no one is first, you're just gonna be part of a process. And folks don't seem to understand that they will be edited, that they can have questions and strong feelings about what they will and won't change. But to work together, we do the editing together and then you Wait, so that's the overview?
Sara 32:47
I think, yeah, I think, I think people tend to forget how collaborative of a process it is, and also just how many submissions like presses get. They are not the only one submitting a, a work, and it just, and you can't accept everything. I mean, you might, you might want to, but you have limited time, limited funds. Like
Atlin 33:12
Mm-hmm.
Sara 33:13
sometimes authors have to get a rejection for not for any reason related to the quality of their work, but just because you only have space for, for 10 stories or, or whatever.
Atlin 33:28
Mm-hmm. Yes. You know, that's, that's why for me as an editor, I always want to encourage, if I'm rejecting and it was genuinely a great story, I'm like, Hey, go over here and submit, or, you know, find another call that this fits because I love this story, but we could only have so many lochness monster stories, you know, or, or I don't know. Sherlock Holmes as a child stories and we've already got, you know, two of them. So your voice is magic. Go and share it because yeah, we can do it all.
Lilly 34:07
I'm trying to think of a way to phrase this question. I'm just gonna go for it. Should a, an author always believe platitudes in a rejection, or is there a chance that it's just to be kind?
Atlin 34:22
I really don't. No of too many editors. I don't know of any editors who to use, I think a very New York phrase who are gonna blow smoke up your skirt. They're not gonna tend to be kind unless they mean it, because otherwise this sounds obnoxious. The writer's just gonna turn around and pepper you with more, and if they're not good, you do not want that. So you don't tend to, I don't, and I don't know of other editors who tend to compliment and not mean it. So no.
Lilly 34:59
Yeah, I thought that was the answer, but I actually, speaking of things, I think I know the answer to I've heard worries of writers that their work will be stolen if they submit it, that it will be taken and someone else's name will get put on it. Has that ever happened in the history of ever?
Atlin 35:19
Not that I'm aware of. The reason is because that takes a lot of work. Why would I steal even, like, let's just say it was a magically good story. Why would I steal it? Whose name am I gonna put on it? Because I have my own voice, and unless you imitated my voice, it doesn't sound like me. So there's no win in stealing somebody's work. There really isn't. There's just no win.
Lilly 35:51
Yeah.
Atlin 35:52
a small, but there may be in a big press, I don't know. You steal it and you give it to somebody else who you already work with, but in a small press, there's no upside. There is literally no way we're gonna make money out of stealing it as opposed to attributing it.
Lilly 36:08
Mm-hmm.
Atlin 36:09
So it hasn't hit happened in the history of ever so far as I
Lilly 36:12
Yeah.
Sara 36:13
Do you have any tips for independent authors who are like looking to work with an editor and trying to filter for an editor? They'll work well with.
Atlin 36:24
I was really thinking about this because my editor is pretty much my best friend, but I met her through writing and editing. So I already know she's a magical editor and that she likes my writing. So there's a difference between an editor who just. Anyway. Yes, the answer is talk to people if you can about an editor they've worked with, even if it was just, I published a short story with this press and they were so easy. They fixed a thing I didn't even know was wrong. That's all you need to know. Approach that press and say, Hey, does any one of you do, you know, freelance?
Lilly 37:05
Mm-hmm.
Atlin 37:06
So I would much rather, I would much more suggest trying to find an editor that route or meeting them at a convention than to just blindly be like, well, this person says they edit. Because you don't really know their style. You don't know what they tend to edit. And if they don't end it, edit hard sci-fi, for example, like you're a self-published person. If they don't edit hard sci-fi, they're gonna leave it all a mess. And then just edit the things that they do know. So you didn't really pay for something useful. So yes, go through friends, like with most of everything, go through friends if you can.
Lilly 37:50
Absolutely.
Sara 37:51
if you're looking for an editor and you found like an editor's website looks good, they, they edit, they say they edit the, the genre and like then asking them for a client reference before you hire them. Like, do you think there's any value in that? Would would an editor put you in touch with former happy clients?
Atlin 38:09
if they don't, I would wonder why. It's like anything else. A plumber, you know, a a house painter. I, I want to talk to people who worked with you, and if you don't want to share that, I do wonder why, you know? So yeah, I would definitely say, oh, great. You, you know, you edit Australian mysteries. Do you have any Aussies that you know would, that you've worked with? Oh, yes. A and Q1 of them is an award winner. You know, like, wouldn't you wanna sort of tout yourself that way? So I think Sarah, yes, there'd be nothing wrong with asking for a client or two to recommend you, but if you can go to cons, that is also, I think you get to see them, you get to hear them. You get to, you know, get warm fuzzies or hell nos from them,
Lilly 39:09
Yeah. Is there something that would surprise a writer about editing or being an editor?
Atlin 39:16
To return to, you know, if you are polite, you'll stand out, you know? Oh, and the other thing which seems the reason some people sometimes are rude is 'cause they think they can't ask questions. So, as a writer, please be pleasantly surprised by an editor telling you, ask your questions. None of them are dumb. Ask them kindly. That's it. You know, we want to answer your dumbest question. I don't know what editing means. What does it mean? You're gonna edit my book? Ask that. Okay. How long does that take? Why is it two years? We'd much rather you. No. Then get halfway through the process and then you, you start a list of demands, and I can tell you about at least one writer who had a list of demands after their very first book, and we never worked with them again.
Lilly 40:15
Was it a, a bowl of only green m and ms or even crazier than that?
Atlin 40:20
It, it was crazier than that. And I, I actually read about, I think it was Pearl Jam. The reason they have something like that in their contract is because they want to see if you read the contract, because if you didn't get to that one silly bit, that means you didn't, also didn't read. We need the stage, stage set up this way. We need the amps, you know, secured this way. So it means our safety is at risk now.
Lilly 40:51
Mm-hmm.
Atlin 40:52
So yeah, it was, it was, the green m and m thing is actually kind of relevant. But this writer's list of demands was special.
Sara 41:05
Not relevant.
Lilly 41:06
Yeah.
Atlin 41:07
They thought they were, but I don't know how.
Sara 41:11
Transitioning a little bit to more of the writing side, since you, you are also a, an author you've written a collection of short stories that are centered around the meeting of Sherlock Holmes and John Watson. Can you tell us a little bit about that project?
Atlin 41:26
One day I said something about there's no chance in a fake or something. There's no author note. There's no world in which these two wouldn't have met. And somebody said, can you give me a for instance? And I've since written like 120 other meetings for them. 70 are in the book. So there's still 50 I I need to put together. It's just a fascinating idea for any characters you love. Absolutely stunning for characters you love. How else might those two have met? How else is feasible with those temperaments? You know, it's such a good exercise for the class. You know, you already love them, and so it's just somebody gives you this idea and then you're like, Hmm. And you already know they met. You already know that they vibed. So how else? I don't know. It's just a very delightful thing to ask yourself about your own loves or even your own original characters. How else could this story have started?
Sara 42:39
I mean, and I think that's one of the joys of fanfiction is imagining all of these, these what ifs. And that's why Fanfiction is, there's so much of it because we all, we all like reading about, you know, our favorite characters in different situations that don't necessarily come up in whatever their, their original property was.
Atlin 43:01
Right, right. I mean, it happens in traditional stuff too. We had Bram Stoker's vampires and nobody stopped writing vampires since then. I know they existed before him, but he's made it happen. Sort of, you know, we still write endless vampire stories. We still publish the, you know, the Big five endless Sherlock Holmes stories. You know, we all like our au you know, our, our bookshop A au our, our, our coffee shop au Traditional publishing loves it just as much. The what if.
Lilly 43:36
Mm-hmm. I have a very short, hopefully charming, funny story about your collection. I started reading it somewhat recently, but I had purchased it several months before and completely forgotten the, concept of it. So when I got to the second story, I was very confused and I was going back and forth trying to figure out the timeline, and then I was like, oh,
Atlin 44:01
was this the day they met or the night they met.
Lilly 44:04
I think it was the night they
Atlin 44:05
Okay. Those are romances. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. See that? I think that's even more confusing than the day they met, which is BFFs, you know, stories 'cause they, why they, they're very divergent. But in the romance stuff it's, yeah. Sorry.
Lilly 44:24
No, that's my, I have a bad habit of not reading the backs of books before I read the book. Which is usually fine, but sometimes leads to hilarious things like that where I get very confused.
Atlin 44:36
I read a Fanfic, a novel length Fanfic, where Sherlock Holmes was blind. Okay. And when I started reading a different story, like a month later, I was like, why isn't he blind? What's going on? Yeah. So not quite the same, but the
Lilly 44:53
Yeah. So what are some of the differences between writing fan fiction of a work in the public domain that you can publish, like Sherlock Holmes versus writing what we're gonna call just for fun? Fan fiction.
Atlin 45:09
I'm not sure there's a difference unless you started writing the Sherlock thing with an idea that you wanted to publish it. And I don't know that people do that. Like at the end they may find, oh, people really like this. You know, and then they go and, you know, scrub it and, and try and publish it. But for me, my perception, there's no difference. We, we all just write in this delicious pool of existing ip and occasionally we're like, huh, with the idea,
Sara 45:46
We've, we've talked a little bit about this already, so, you might not have a, a further expansion to this question. But what draws you to writing fanfiction?
Atlin 45:55
I can put my shoulders down. You know, like, like writing to a submission guideline is somewhat constrained. You have to please somebody else, and that's as it should be. When I write fan fiction, I have to please me. I can just flap around in the pool and scream across the pool, Hey, look at this. And somebody swims over or they don't, you know? So it's just a little bit more freeing, not that writing towards something conventional isn't freeing. 'cause hopefully you like this, you know, don't write if you don't like it, don't write to be famous. Don't write to be successful. 'cause it's a shit way to make a living unless you like it.
Lilly 46:43
Sometimes I see that people have an impression that fanfiction is a recent phenomenon but it's been getting published for eternities. Does it feel like the general perception of fanfiction has changed over the years, or more recently?
Atlin 47:01
More recently, yes. Now we have, you know, the big five saying, Hey, bring your scrubbed work to us. You know, and it's not 'cause they like it, they just think it's a foregone conclusion and it's easy for them then. So, uh, the article that I read that I referenced a little while ago even talks about some of these works not getting edited from the bigger publishers. And so yes, the perception is we can make money off of it. It's never not been, it's never not been. I, I have an essay in the book Spark about fan fiction and it delineates story after story after writer after writer who either talks about having written FIC or. Clearly parallels like Star Wars to the Power of 10 Parallels Dune in so many ways. Like straight out boom, here's that trope, boom, here's that trope. So Fanfic has been done forever. There was a woman who, I think it was in 1780s or something, wrote to a writer. She said, I love the book, but you need to lean onto the romance in the next book. And he is like, and she's like, well, then I'll do it. And she published it, you know, so Fanfic has been forever.
Sara 48:28
I do kind of wonder though about some of the legal implications of books these days that are. Advertising openly that they were once fan fiction. Like I know that there were recently a couple of books that were previously Harry Potter fan fiction
Lilly 48:50
We can say alchemized, I think
Sara 48:52
yeah.
Atlin 48:53
Yeah.
Sara 48:53
And, and, and just like some of the marketing was around how they were previously fan fiction. And that seems to me to be really murky territory.
Atlin 49:06
I wonder if, if you scrub it enough, in other words, like we know that 50 Shades of Gray came from Twilight. If there is not a single Vampire and 50 Shades, what is Stephanie Meyer gonna do?
Lilly 49:21
Mm-hmm.
Sara 49:22
50 Shades of Gray also wasn't like, everyone knew that it was previously Twilight fan fiction, but the like official publisher wasn't saying that, whereas.
Atlin 49:32
yeah, but if they do say that, how does rolling, for example, prove that her IP was stolen if everything was changed? Do you know what I mean? If nobody is named Harry and nobody has a, a hagrid and nobody, do you know what I mean? Like you can change everything enough and Sure. You stole my recipe, but I stole the recipe too. Diane, Dwayne had her Wizard school before JK Rowling.
Sara 50:08
absolutely.
Atlin 50:09
So we can then reverse the clock and say, okay, Joanne, here's where you overlap. Diane, Dwayne. And so on.
Lilly 50:20
Mm-hmm.
Atlin 50:22
I'm not saying, you know, people can't have a grievance, but also look at your house of cards.
Sara 50:30
Yeah.
Atlin 50:31
If they use the names and stuff, sure. Sue the ass off them, but you know, they're probably not doing that.
Lilly 50:38
It's interesting you brought up Star Wars as an example because I was thinking of it earlier when we were talking about people who don't get edited and I think, I feel like George Lucas is kind of the quintessential example of when he got too famous to get edited. You can see the like nose dive in quality of the stories.
Atlin 50:58
Oh yeah. Ann Rice, like unreadable, they became like, you, you mean edited in terms of films for George.
Lilly 51:08
Well, I, I just, that was an example that Star Wars, as you can see, you can kind of see how as he got more powerful and famous. The movies devolve in quality. It's, and so that made me think of it, but yeah,
Atlin 51:21
yeah, yeah.
Sara 51:22
I do think that even the, the big name authors who don't get edited because of the power of their name, they probably should, like
Lilly 51:31
that's my point. Like it's an example of the quality being obviously worse when that switchover happens. Yeah.
Atlin 51:38
Mm-hmm. There's nobody, there's nobody. There's nobody who doesn't need editing because your brain is a wondrous thing and all of the story is in there, but you didn't write it down. There will always be things you missed because you're a human being, so there is literally no writer on this planet. Who doesn't need to have somebody read their story?
Lilly 52:06
Mm-hmm.
Atlin 52:07
Will it always need, you know, big changes? No. Will it need did you change the character's name also? This sentence is 150 words without any punctuation. And maybe if there's a fight and it's 150 words, that makes sense. But it was, I don't know, a, a romantic moment. And now I don't know where people's legs are. You know what I mean? So everybody knows what they mean, but we all don't. So there's no such thing as a, a writer that doesn't need editing. My eye just got caught. What draws you to fan fiction, and I just wanted to answer really quick. Community, community people. I, I really hope people who listen to this also understand that joy writing Fanfic or reading fanfic is part of being a real writer. Because you'll make real friends.
Sara 53:03
And you're doing real writing.
Atlin 53:05
Yes. Oh yes, that too. You're developing your skills like mad. You really, really are.
Lilly 53:12
Yeah, no. It feels sometimes like the reason why fanfiction gets looked down on is kind of a symptom. Now I'm on a soapbox, kind of a symptom of capitalism, right? Like, how dare you spend your time on something that you can't use to make money, and now that you can use it to make money with these scrubbed versions getting published, people are like, oh, maybe fan fiction is okay to spend time on, and it's like completely defeating the purpose.
Atlin 53:39
Yes. Yeah. A huge, huge part of being in a fandom, whether you write or not, is the community you'll find, and it's endlessly powerful. It's truly life changing. If, if you're, if you enter it and love it. So just wanted to add that,
Lilly 53:59
Yeah.
Sara 54:00
And also, I mean, I, I, I do think that because there are some pretty toxic or there can be toxic areas of fandom communities, so I think it's also important to find, find a good space.
Atlin 54:14
right? Yeah, yeah. No doubt of the fandom wars. There's, there's no win. There will never be a win because people have time and they will use it to tell you you're wrong, you know? So just go left and you'll find your people go right. You'll find your people. Go up, go down. I've been in. Variations of fandom for, for decades now. And I mostly avoid fandom, wink, because I go left, right up, down and I find the people who like what I like
Lilly 54:45
Mm-hmm.
Atlin 54:47
and they empower me, they tremendously empower me. So go find your power,
Lilly 54:53
That has been wonderful talking to you. Thank you again for joining us. Are there any current projects or anything that you, you'd like to share with our listeners?
Atlin 55:03
tiny bit of self-promotion. Reach out to me via Improbable Press if you ever want. I'm going to be starting up a little bit of training about answering a lot of these questions. If somebody listens to this, you more or less got a lot of the training, but there's details that you know, take a little bit more than an hour. So come talk to me on ATLA merrick@improbablepress.com. About getting yourself out there and published because somebody did it before you. You can do it, but there's things you don't know, so let's talk about those go to conventions. You know, there's really great for learning about this stuff.
Sara 55:47
So you gave your email. But for people who want to follow you on the internet keep up with what you're doing and what Improbable is doing can you be found anywhere else?
Atlin 55:57
I will say people in my experience are all dialing back their social media. A lot of my writers have vanished except for one place, and so right now. I'm sort of on Blue Sky. Atlin Merrick. I'm Atlind Merrick. No, no spaces everywhere. I'm on Tumblr, ATLA Merrick, and I'm on Substack. Vaguely. But otherwise, yeah, the website is, you know, Hey, you said a bunch of things at the end of that thing, but I didn't find you there. Email me
Lilly 56:34
Yeah, social media is moving pretty fast in some pretty crazy directions right now, so,
Atlin 56:42
yeah, yeah. And a lot of, a lot of people are just getting off. If, if somebody likes a writer or they like a publisher, most of them, a lot of them do newsletters, sign up for their newsletters. It's, it's easier on everybody. So I would say, you know, look for that. I, I do a newsletter for Clandestine Press. My mother press. They own improbable, you know, sign up for newsletters and you learn a lot that way too about what publishers want and, and new books that are in your genre.
Lilly 57:19
Fantastic. Well, thank you again and have a great rest of your day.
Atlin 57:23
Thank you Lily. Thank you Sarah,
Sara 57:29
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.
Lilly 57:33
Come disagree with us! We're on BlueSky and Instagram at fictionfanspod. You can also email us at fictionfanspod at gmail. com or leave a comment on YouTube.
Sara 57:45
If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.
Lilly 57:52
We also have a Patreon, where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.
Sara 57:59
Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye!
